The "Ask Anything" to Nicalandia Thread

[Slothinc]

@NagemTX my eggs are from Bobbi Porto and hers are gorgeous, show quality. Unfortunately they had a rough handling through the mail but I’m so grateful that I have 6 blue cream eggs developing! Fingers crossed I can get at least one roo and one hen out of them.

 

[NatJ]

I made a thread asking this question but not sure I’ll get a response so I hope it’s okay to ask here…

Is it possible to get lavender (self blue) offspring from blue creams (aka porcelain)? It is my understanding that blue cream is lavender over buff, bred many times over. So I guess I’m wondering if the lavender gene can be isolated out, only using blue creams (and maybe making splits with black??) Or do you have to have a lavender bird to make that happen? I am speaking about silkies, not sure if the genetics are different in other breeds. Thanks so much!

Just blue creams are not going to give you solid lavender birds.

But breeding the blue creams to black, then breeding those splits to each other or back to the blue creams, should give you some black-based birds that show the lavender gene (solid lavender birds, except that they will probably have some leakage of various other colors.)

To get GOOD solid lavenders, you will probably have to do a lot of work to get rid of leakage.

I would probably work an alternating two-generation breeding plan: breed a bird that shows lavender to a good black, then breed the offspring back to the bird that shows lavender. Half of the offspring should show lavender, so pick the best of them and repeat the process. At first the bird that "shows lavender" will be a blue cream, but in later generations you should get closer and closer to a good clean lavender. This is basically a way to move the lavender gene into a line of birds that otherwise have the genes to be solid black.

 

[Slothinc]

@NatJ thank you so much!! That makes a lot of sense. I hadn’t ever seen that process spelled out before. I guess due to the work involved, most people haven’t been doing it, but I think it sounds great. I have a batch of 9 black and black mottled silkies which just hatched so I think I will use them for this project. At least the solid blacks. Not sure yet about the mottled haha, that might be biting off more than I can chew

 

[kurby22]

Well @pipdzipdnreadytogo the feathers are not white! Would this mean that my Modern Game carry something recessive like the Dun gene or something similar? I know they don’t usually carry the sex linked chocolate in the game lines, so that’s why I thought maybe Dun? I’m in love with the color and wouldn’t be sad if I started a line in this color if only I knew how it was made haha. Modern game in this color would be so pretty!

 

[troyer]

Well @pipdzipdnreadytogo the feathers are not white! Would this mean that my Modern Game carry something recessive like the Dun gene or something similar? I know they don’t usually carry the sex linked chocolate in the game lines, so that’s why I thought maybe Dun? I’m in love with the color and wouldn’t be sad if I started a line in this color if only I knew how it was made haha. Modern game in this color would be so pretty!

Dun shows with a single gene. It would have to be chocolate.
Dun works in the same way that blue does, black base color, blue is single dilute, splash is double dilute and in the dun gene with a black base color, dun is single dilute, khaki is double dilute.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

What a pretty baby! Yes, as Troyer said, dun is a partial dominant like blue, so expresses if any copies are present. I can definitely see why you would think dun with that coloring, though. I see the resemblance!

Remind me, what colors were the parents? You were saying possibly Bobtail Cochin and what color Modern Games?

Bobtail is... weird. I can't find any straight answers about what it is. Is it sexlinked? Autosomal? Is it fully recessive? Related to albinism? To recessive white? Silver? Is it based on birchen? On partridge? There's a million posts about it that each say a different thing. Baffling. Maybe I just need to get some Bobtails and do some test crosses for myself.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Don't take this the wrong way, but... Isn't Long one of your birds that was off-type for a Malay anyway? Wouldn't this kinda be more proof that he's not purebred after all?

Indian Malays, they're not an established breed unlike the Malays that are bred to the American SOP. You will get variation among individuals. Long is an example of longer neck feathers, & tail feathers. He's got all Malay traits, besides that. If he were a mix he wouldn't have the Double Preen glands, which are a common unique recessive trait of Oriental Gamefowls.

I'll just let it be, so I'm stopping here. There's no use trying to explain why he looks different again, I've already explained once.

Will just come back with a different question when I have one.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Furness is melanized gold wheaten, not duckwing or partridge.

I forgot furness was Wheaten.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

Indian Malays, they're not an established breed unlike the Malays that are bred to the American SOP. You will get variation among individuals. Long is an example of longer neck feathers, & tail feathers. He's got all Malay traits, besides that. If he were a mix he wouldn't have the Double Preen glands, which are a common unique recessive trait of Oriental Gamefowls.

But Malays of any kind also don't lay blue-shelled eggs. The trait hiding in a line for any amount of time is highly unlikely as it is a dominant trait. Coupled with him not really looking like a pure Malay (or weirdly being the only one you've hatched that has all this variation you describe when the rest of your Malays more or less look like Malays) kinda indicates that another breed tainted your line at some point.

As far as the preen gland thing goes, several of my Cochin bantams have double preen glands and they are not oriental games. Oriental game is in the background of several common breeds, and a recessive trait, especially one impacting a part of the body that most people don't even look at unless there's a problem with it, sometimes not even then, is much more likely to go sight unseen in a line for many generations. That just isn't enough evidence that he's pure and you should know this as much as the rest of us.

You yourself have admitted you had your Malays in a mixed flock with other roosters when Long was hatched, so you absolutely cannot rule out him being a mix no matter how much you want to. An honest and logically-thinking breeder would look at that bird, look at all the facts, and think, yeah, he's most likely a mix-up, but to you it's always a throw back or a mutation. Then you blast pictures everywhere like it's fact and mislead people instead of being honest and saying, look, this is what I think but it is weird so could also be this instead. And when others point out that something's not right with your logic, you get defensive, you argue, and you cherry-pick sentences out of sources that don't actually prove your point. This is not the behavior of an educator or an expert of any kind. It's just... sad. It's okay to be wrong sometimes, trust me, I definitely know! Learning from your mistakes is much better than doubling down on them and spreading misinformation.

Here's Long's son. Long necked, & Lanky.View attachment 3766676View attachment 3766677View attachment 3766678View attachment 3766679

Crossed back to a Malay, I assume, so it makes sense that he would regain more of those Malayoid traits even if only three-quarters Malay. Also, I'm sure you're aware, but he's got a pretty bad hip deformity and duck foot so probably should not be bred forward.

 

[MysteryChicken]

I have Dun Malay cockerel, & a mixed breed Paint pullet. Would it be possible to create Dun Paints with the two, or no?

Trying to make interesting plumage colors to breed forward for harvesting pelts for Wall Decor, Art, & Fly Tying.