HELP! Olive Eggers are dying

[Wyorp Rock]

Now I have another one that's starting to slow down on the food and water, but now I'm giving them antibiotics through the waterer and it seems to be making her and another one very sleepy which prevents them from eating as much as they use to. I'm using vetrx and probiotics.

Also 2 of my olives lacked eating after I switched to Purina organic starter feed since the crumbs where a little bigger than the other brand I had. I've also been giving them hard boiled egg yolk, plain yogurt and I'm crushing the feed to encourage them to eat.

The temp is 91° Fahrenheit Under the lamp and 86° Fahrenheit outside of the lamp,

I've been treating all of them for a respiratory infection because I'm worried they are passing it on to each other.

he 3 left have semi solid olive stool, but every other day I will find a couple stools with a little red in it.

I'm sorry for your loss.

First of all, I agree with @azygous I would start treating for Coccidiosis, asap. You can find Corid in the Cattle Section of Tractor Supply. (see photos below).
Dosage is 1 1/2 teaspoons Corid powder or 2 teaspoons of 9.6% Corid liquid per gallon of water. Give for 5-7 days - make sure this is the ONLY water available during that time period. Mix a fresh batch at least once a day.

If you can post some photos of the poop that would be good.

I pulled some info from your posts, I may have not read all of it thoroughly, but a few things stand out.

Your temperature - you keep adjusting it? Are you trying to keep the whole brooder at 91F? At around 9days old (?), chicks should be at around 80-85F, but they only need one warm spot in the brooder, let the rest be cool - I don't necessarily go by temperatures, I look at behavior - if they are all huddled under the heat source cheeping loudly, then they need a bit more heat. If they are spread out avoiding the heat, it's too hot. Panting - they are too hot. (Panting can also be a symptom of Coccidiosis). I brood chicks for the most part outdoors under a heating pad, that provides the one spot of warmth, my night temps get into the mid 20F and have had no problems - sometimes the days are only in the upper 30s/40s, chicks will run under the heat when they get cold, so watch behavior.

You mention that you got antibiotics from the feed store - what did you get and what dosage are you using?
I'm concerned about the antibiotics making them sleepy?

You are treating for respiratory infection? Are they coughing, sneezing, have runny noses, facial swelling, pus or discharge from the eyes?

You also mention they have trouble eating the new crumbles because they are too big? You can wet the chick starter to make a mash which is easier to eat for small chicks. Just put some in a bowl, add warm water and stir. My flock loves wet feed, they eat it from day one on (dry feed is also available). Hard boiled egg is a great treat, so I would give them a little each day, no problems there.

Also, do you have the packaging your heat lamps came in - what type of bulb are you using - especially for the EE's?

 

[Jprze84]

Is that food on the ground mixed with the poop? I prefer not to have feed on the ground, assuming it was temporary. Poop, looks good, do you have any of the poop with blood?

The wood brooder set up is ok, are you adjusting the heat lamp daily? What is the temp on each end? One end should be warmer than the other, the chicks should be able to move away finding their own comfort level. If they're panting/spread out, they're too hot. The cardboard box is very roomy. Put the lamp on one end pointing to the other, under the lamp will be "cooler", food & water should go there. The end the lamp shines on will be warmer, probably where they will sleep but again if they're panting/spread out, it's too hot so raise the lamp. You shouldn't have to be adjusting through out the day.

Have no clue why you lost the two, thinking stress from shipping but will tag some that have more experience ....

@Wyorp Rock @Lady of McCamley @azygous @aart @WVduckchick @KikisGirls
Thank you all for you help, I'm clueless

They are not panting, the temperature is a 5°F to 10°F difference from one end to the other. There are 2 spots of poop that have a little red in it, the paper towel was in there for almost 2 days. They go back and forth from cool area to warm area and rest inbetween both temperature's and will get up to warmer side when they get cool. the food gets kicked all over the place when they eat. Because of the messing eating I change the paper towel every other day, I was changing daily but they get stressed and won't eat or drink for half a day.

 

[Jprze84]

I'm sorry for your loss.

First of all, I agree with @azygous I would start treating for Coccidiosis, asap. You can find Corid in the Cattle Section of Tractor Supply. (see photos below).
Dosage is 1 1/2 teaspoons Corid powder or 2 teaspoons of 9.6% Corid liquid per gallon of water. Give for 5-7 days - make sure this is the ONLY water available during that time period. Mix a fresh batch at least once a day.

If you can post some photos of the poop that would be good.

I pulled some info from your posts, I may have not read all of it thoroughly, but a few things stand out.

Your temperature - you keep adjusting it? Are you trying to keep the whole brooder at 91F? At around 9days old (?), chicks should be at around 80-85F, but they only need one warm spot in the brooder, let the rest be cool - I don't necessarily go by temperatures, I look at behavior - if they are all huddled under the heat source cheeping loudly, then they need a bit more heat. If they are spread out avoiding the heat, it's too hot. Panting - they are too hot. (Panting can also be a symptom of Coccidiosis). I brood chicks for the most part outdoors under a heating pad, that provides the one spot of warmth, my night temps get into the mid 20F and have had no problems - sometimes the days are only in the upper 30s/40s, chicks will run under the heat when they get cold, so watch behavior.

You mention that you got antibiotics from the feed store - what did you get and what dosage are you using?
I'm concerned about the antibiotics making them sleepy?

You are treating for respiratory infection? Are they coughing, sneezing, have runny noses, facial swelling, pus or discharge from the eyes?

You also mention they have trouble eating the new crumbles because they are too big? You can wet the chick starter to make a mash which is easier to eat for small chicks. Just put some in a bowl, add warm water and stir. My flock loves wet feed, they eat it from day one on (dry feed is also available). Hard boiled egg is a great treat, so I would give them a little each day, no problems there.

Also, do you have the packaging your heat lamps came in - what type of bulb are you using - especially for the EE's?

View attachment 1516625
View attachment 1516626

Thank you for your response. I'm trying to keep the warmest area at 87° any cooler and they are huddled up in the warmest spot and wouldn't leave it for most of the day, when this was going on moved the food and water closer because I was concerned they weren't eating or drinking. Once I bumped the temperature up they started to move around and eating, drinking regularly.

I was advised to give them vetrx. I gave 2 of them 2 drops directly and mixed a quarter dose in the water. When I gave the the drops directly they didn't want to eat at all. They were more concerned about what was on the side of there mouth, hours passed before they started to eat and drink so I didn't do the direct methos anymore.

There was no discharge, but they seemed to be gasping for air and breathing heavy, this has stopped since I gave them a couple doses over 2 days, but they still are not eating/drinking like the others.

I have been giving them hard boiled egg yolk to bring there appetite back and they love the egg. Since I gave them a little bit of egg they are eating less of thier starter crumb and keep searching for another sorce of food. I tried wet crumb but they just keep walking by it looking for dry crumb. I've tried plain yogurt, crushed meal worm and plain oat meal. one of the two is doing much better but the other one is not eating. I noticed an hour ago the one not eating has diarrhea now but she is eat on and off with encouragement. And just now started eating like crazy but it only last for a minute. Im afraid to keep putting hand in the brooder because she gets stressed easily and than stops eating.

I'm heading to the store for heating pads and I'm getting rid of the lamps. My setup with the lamps seems to be a big concern so they will be gone tonight.

 

[aart]

I think your light is too hot for that small space.
What is the wattage of the bulb?
I also think that the OE's were just not as hardy as the Marans,
failure to thrive due to shipping stress and/or hatching/genetic issues.

Here's my notes on chick heat, hope something in there might help:
They need to be pretty warm(~85-90F on the brooder floor right under the lamp and 10-20 degrees cooler at the other end of brooder) for the first day or two, especially if they have been shipped, until they get to eating, drinking and moving around well. But after that it's best to keep them as cool as possible for optimal feather growth and quicker acclimation to outside temps. A lot of chick illnesses are attributed to too warm of a brooder. I do think it's a good idea to use a thermometer on the floor of the brooder to check the temps, especially when new at brooding, later I still use it but more out of curiosity than need.

The best indicator of heat levels is to watch their behavior:
-If they are huddled/piled up right under the lamp and cheeping very loudly, they are too cold.
-If they are spread out on the absolute edges of the brooder as far from the lamp as possible, panting and/or cheeping very loudly, they are too hot.
-If they sleep around the edge of the lamp calmly just next to each other and spend time running all around the brooder they are juuuust right!

The lamp is best at one end of the brooder with food/water at the other cooler end of the brooder, so they can get away from the heat or be under it as needed. Wattage of 'heat' bulb depends on size of brooder and ambient temperature of room brooder is in. Regular incandescent bulbs can be used, you might not need a 'heat bulb'. You can get red colored incandescent bulbs at a reptile supply source. A dimmer extension cord is an excellent way to adjust the output of the bulb to change the heat without changing the height of the lamp.


Or you could go with a heat plate, commercially made or DIY: http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/pseudo-brooder-heater-plate

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I was advised to give them vetrx. I gave 2 of them 2 drops directly and mixed a quarter dose in the water. When I gave the the drops directly they didn't want to eat at all. They were more concerned about what was on the side of there mouth, hours passed before they started to eat and drink so I didn't do the direct methos anymore.

There was no discharge, but they seemed to be gasping for air and breathing heavy, this has stopped since I gave them a couple doses over 2 days, but they still are not eating/drinking like the others.

have been giving them hard boiled egg yolk to bring there appetite back and they love the egg. Since I gave them a little bit of egg they are eating less of thier starter crumb and keep searching for another sorce of food. I tried wet crumb but they just keep walking by it looking for dry crumb. I've tried plain yogurt, crushed meal worm and plain oat meal. one of the two is doing much better but the other one is not eating. I noticed an hour ago the one not eating has diarrhea now but she is eat on and off with encouragement. And just now started eating like crazy but it only last for a minute. Im afraid to keep putting hand in the brooder because she gets stressed easily and than stops eating.

VetRx is a homeopathic remedy, so it's not an antibiotic. It won't hurt them, but I wonder if it was too "hot" to give small chicks orally.

I would still get them started on Corid asap, it is a Coccidiostat which starves out Coccidia. I would stop all additions of probiotics or vitamins while treating for Coccidiosis.

Gasping for air/breathing heavy can be a symptom of a number of things including, Coccidiosis overload, poor ventilation, over heating, crop issues and respiratory illness.

I would make the dry crumble available at all times, you can still offer the egg and a small dish of wet feed as well. This is what I do, mine have wet and dry during waking hours.

There is nothing wrong with using heating lamps, I think most people still use them. My biggest concern was the "type" of bulb being used. I should have explained that - IF the bulb is Teflon coated (should be on the label of the box), those emit toxic fumes that kill birds. One of the early symptoms of Teflon toxicity would be respiratory distress and depression.

Chicks can sometimes stress very easily when interacting with humans. It looks like the brooders are on the floor? If you have a small step stool or a bucket you can sit on, that brings you lower and not "hovering" the brooder. If mine are in the house for a couple of days, I speak to them when entering the room, then usually sit and just talk to them for a few minutes before getting water/food. This allows them time to be ready for you.

I'm sorry you are having problems, I hope you can get things straightened out.

 

[Jprze84]

I think your light is too hot for that small space.
What is the wattage of the bulb?
I also think that the OE's were just not as hardy as the Marans,
failure to thrive due to shipping stress and/or hatching/genetic issues.

Here's my notes on chick heat, hope something in there might help:
They need to be pretty warm(~85-90F on the brooder floor right under the lamp and 10-20 degrees cooler at the other end of brooder) for the first day or two, especially if they have been shipped, until they get to eating, drinking and moving around well. But after that it's best to keep them as cool as possible for optimal feather growth and quicker acclimation to outside temps. A lot of chick illnesses are attributed to too warm of a brooder. I do think it's a good idea to use a thermometer on the floor of the brooder to check the temps, especially when new at brooding, later I still use it but more out of curiosity than need.

The best indicator of heat levels is to watch their behavior:
-If they are huddled/piled up right under the lamp and cheeping very loudly, they are too cold.
-If they are spread out on the absolute edges of the brooder as far from the lamp as possible, panting and/or cheeping very loudly, they are too hot.
-If they sleep around the edge of the lamp calmly just next to each other and spend time running all around the brooder they are juuuust right!

The lamp is best at one end of the brooder with food/water at the other cooler end of the brooder, so they can get away from the heat or be under it as needed. Wattage of 'heat' bulb depends on size of brooder and ambient temperature of room brooder is in. Regular incandescent bulbs can be used, you might not need a 'heat bulb'. You can get red colored incandescent bulbs at a reptile supply source. A dimmer extension cord is an excellent way to adjust the output of the bulb to change the heat without changing the height of the lamp.


Or you could go with a heat plate, commercially made or DIY: http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/pseudo-brooder-heater-plate

I think everyone is right about my heating method and the dinner extension cord is a great idea, I never knew those were available. I do have a thermometer on the floor and I have one on the cooler side of the brooder. I feel so bad for the 2 I lost and I've been losing sleep due to my concerns of their health. The temperature is 83°F and I set up an mhp last and they are going in and out of it and seem to be happier.

 

[Jprze84]

I'm really glad I joined this forum the staff at the local feed hasn't been much help and all of you have helped most favorably. I will continue to update and take any advice I can get. Thank you to all of you.

 

[Jprze84]

VetRx is a homeopathic remedy, so it's not an antibiotic. It won't hurt them, but I wonder if it was too "hot" to give small chicks orally.

I would still get them started on Corid asap, it is a Coccidiostat which starves out Coccidia. I would stop all additions of probiotics or vitamins while treating for Coccidiosis.

Gasping for air/breathing heavy can be a symptom of a number of things including, Coccidiosis overload, poor ventilation, over heating, crop issues and respiratory illness.

I would make the dry crumble available at all times, you can still offer the egg and a small dish of wet feed as well. This is what I do, mine have wet and dry during waking hours.

There is nothing wrong with using heating lamps, I think most people still use them. My biggest concern was the "type" of bulb being used. I should have explained that - IF the bulb is Teflon coated (should be on the label of the box), those emit toxic fumes that kill birds. One of the early symptoms of Teflon toxicity would be respiratory distress and depression.

Chicks can sometimes stress very easily when interacting with humans. It looks like the brooders are on the floor? If you have a small step stool or a bucket you can sit on, that brings you lower and not "hovering" the brooder. If mine are in the house for a couple of days, I speak to them when entering the room, then usually sit and just talk to them for a few minutes before getting water/food. This allows them time to be ready for you.

I'm sorry you are having problems, I hope you can get things straightened out.

I checked the labeling on the bulbs and went online to find out that they are not Teflon coated. When I enter the room I start talking as I walk up to them and then I crouch and talk and whistle. They seem to recognize me because they start to walk towards my voice and look up at me. They seem to get stressed when I reach in to clean the water, remove them for new bedding and change the food out for clean food. I am heading to tractor supply for Corid to start treatment this afternoon. Please continue to send advice as I'm willing to give babies anything that will help them thrive.

 

[aart]

I think everyone is right about my heating method and the dinner extension cord is a great idea, I never knew those were available. I do have a thermometer on the floor and I have one on the cooler side of the brooder. I feel so bad for the 2 I lost and I've been losing sleep due to my concerns of their health. The temperature is 83°F and I set up an mhp last and they are going in and out of it and seem to be happier.

Don't kick yourself too hard, I do think the OE were not hardy.
Chickens have a steep learning curve.
Hang in there.

 

[ChickNanny13]

I checked the labeling on the bulbs and went online to find out that they are not Teflon coated. When I enter the room I start talking as I walk up to them and then I crouch and talk and whistle. They seem to recognize me because they start to walk towards my voice and look up at me. They seem to get stressed when I reach in to clean the water, remove them for new bedding and change the food out for clean food. I am heading to tractor supply for Corid to start treatment this afternoon. Please continue to send advice as I'm willing to give babies anything that will help them thrive.

You should also get them used to your hand, squished dried mealworms in your palm, hang it in the brooder, let them come to you ... Get a chair it takes time but one will be brave & get the rest started.

When you reach in, it's from above, that's what's freaking them out. When picking chicks up I've found scooping them (middle & ring finger under & between their legs, rest of fingers support/control) there's still a "chase" but less "screaming".

You have a tub or plastic bin put them in temporarily while you clean, that would be good too.