The Right to Grow and Raise Your Own Food

[Florida Bullfrog]

Furthermore, something new I have learned - If you do not enter a plea into a case the court cannot set a trial date!! I have the transcripts and the recordings of a prosecutor saying just that in open court and on the record.

You’re not understanding what you read or hear. I’m going to quickly pick a couple of your statements to show why your legal advice should be disregarded, starting with this one.

If a defendant refuses to plea, the judge will simply enter a not guilty plea on his behalf and set the case for trial. I promise you, I make Defendants go to trial all the time when they otherwise think they can stop the proceeding through their lack of compliance.

“Land Patents are issued (and theoretically passed) between sovereigns. Deeds are executed by ‘persons’ and private corporations without these sovereign powers.” -Leading Fighter vs. County of Gregory, 230 N.W.2d.114.116(1975)

The case you quoted rejected the exact argument you’re making and instead ruled the land could be taxed irregardless as to whether it came from a land patent or not.

I don’t think you’re willfully lying. I think you’re not understanding what you read and hear. From what you’ve already stated in your thread it doesn’t sound like you’ve legally won any fight you’ve tried this stuff with. You just are currently sliding under the radar. Or you think you are. If you’re refusing to pay your property taxes, might better check to see if your tax certificates have been sold. Someone might be holding the tax certificates on your land and accruing interest that they’ll pull the trigger on when they’ve racked up enough on it.

 

[Sally PB]

If you’re refusing to pay your property taxes, might better check to see if your tax certificates have been sold. Someone might be holding the tax certificates on your land and accruing interest that they’ll pull the trigger on when they’ve racked up enough on it.

I had to look "tax certificates" up. Still not sure exactly what it entails, but found a lot of sites about how to make money off of it.

"Michigan is a tax deed state, which means that Michigan is going to foreclose on that property, seize it, evict the tenants, then sell it at an auction, also called a tax sale.

The auction will be announced on the county website and in the local newspaper. Anybody can go to this auction, and anybody can bid."

A property adjoining ours had a Notice of Foreclosure on its front door several years ago. It had been unoccupied for many years. We bought it for roughly $21K. If that was all unpaid taxes, that was probably at least 7-8 years of unpaid taxes, or more (estimating roughly, based on my property taxes). Old farm house, large pole barn, some other out buildings in various states of disrepair. I was told the pole barn would cost upwards of $65K to put up, and that was long before the cost of materials skyrocketed.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

In Florida, if a person doesn’t pay their taxes, tax certificates can also be sold where a third party pays off the back taxes but then has a lien against the property that accrues interest the longer it sits. If the property owner does not pay off the certificate with interest within 2 years, the certificate holder can force the county to auction off the property and sell it via a tax deed so as to satisfy the lien. Certificate holders can hold on to the certificates for up to 7 years. Its a way they can either make easy money or get land for cheap.

 

[Sally PB]

Most of the sites I (quickly) perused were about making money. Buy the property at 60-80% off, then turn around and sell.

For people reading this who don't know how it works, at least in Michigan, I'll describe our experience with buying that foreclosed property. (Long story coming...)

I saw the notice on the door, and being a concerned neighbor, all right, snoopy, I went up on the porch and read it. WOW! Frank's old house is being foreclosed! Call hubby... do we want to buy Frank's old house for $21K? YES!!! The reason for the caps and exclamation points is not the house, it's the 5 acres of land.

I called someone I know who knows more about these things. He told me what to do. Call the bank listed on the that notice. Find out more about when/where the sale will be. All I have to do is better that offer by $1.00, and if no one out bids me, it's ours. The bank told me they would rather someone bought it; they didn't want to deal with property, they liked money better.

The sale is literally on the courthouse steps. (Used to be in the lobby, but not since 9/11.) There is a sheriff and whoever else knows about this sale, which was listed in some public forum. Website/paper, dunno. I knew of it because of this property. There was one man from a local real estate office, and hubby and me. The sheriff read through the list, and got to Frank's, and I made them all laugh by raising my hand and saying, "Ooo! I want that one!" Ok, I was so excited, I bounced up and down.

Next step, you have to come back with the entire amount in cash, well, cashier's check. So we get the exact price, go to the bank, and get the check. (I had set this up before hand, and gotten a loan.) Some more paper work, and then wait a year.

The person who owned the property (Frank) had 1 year to redeem the property by paying us whatever we paid ($21K), plus any interest, plus any expenses we may have incurred. The knowledgeable person told me he had never heard of a residential property being redeemed. (Commercial property was a different ballgame.)

One year to the day, cold snowy day in March, we go out and start cleaning the place up. When Frank (or whoever) left, he took some stuff, left a lot of junk. I don't think Frank was the one who totally trashed the place, though. Unless he was that angry or crazy, and he might have been. And, he left the door open. And the raccoons moved in.

So far, we have patched the hole in the roof. It needs to be totally gutted, that's for sure. Raccoons make a mess. We've gotten a lot of the mess out: Four 20 yd dumpsters. We haven't done much else. Because once we fix it up, what do we do?

Rent it out...? ok, to whom? We're BLESSED with great neighbors, and don't want to end up with crappy ones. Sell it? NO!!! for the same reason. So there it sits. Not costing much in property taxes, because it's uninhabitable as it sits. No electricity, no heat, no water. If we fix it up, the tax situation will change.

We enjoy having the property, though. There is a garage near the house for storage, and then there's that huge pole barn too. Hubby wants to fix that up for a workshop. That will eventually happen.

 

[Marvin The Cat]

I’ve looked through this thread.

As an attorney myself, I often run into lay people who confuse “what the law is” with “what the law ought to be,” and people have a tendency to conflate their view of “what the law ought to be” with whether something is a “constitutional right.” If a person feels strongly enough about the “ought to be,” they almost always to declare it to be a right enshrined by the Bill of Rights in the Federal Constitution, even if there is no historical or legal basis for whatever it is to be considered a Constitutional Right.

There’s no Right to Raise Chickens in the Federal Constitution. Your milage may vary in state constitutions. If you think that right should exist in the Bill of Rights, the Founders gave us an amendment process by which new Rights can be added.

I need a good FL attorney who knows all about Covenents and Chain of Title. Would that be you? It’s not, however, about chickens. lol. Can you e m ail me at Joanne at Longview farms dot com? Thanks

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I need a good FL attorney who knows all about Covenents and Chain of Title. Would that be you? It’s not, however, about chickens. lol. Can you e m ail me at Joanne at Longview farms dot com? Thanks

We used Rumberger Kirk & Caldwell for our property deal. They have a real estate practice, though I do not believe it is an area they do a lot of work in. My impression is that its a closely related field to one of their larger practice areas. We had a pre-existing relationship with the firm, were happy with the services rendered, and found the prices reasonable - particularly as the seller took several steps which made the process more burdensome than it should have been. We had to cut the seller's preferred title agent out of the deal and threaten litigation to complete the sale due to the seller's antics.

I would not recommend Holland and Knight. Details aren't relevant.

As a lay person, I find legal decisions in some areas of the law to be interesting, but real estate law is not one of those areas. Couldn't tell you who is making good arguments in the state right now, or has the best reputation in the local field.

Out of curiosity, are you looking to bust an HOA covenant on your property, or something penciled in in the early 1900s? I can not recommend enough the value of a thorough title search ad reliable title insurance in this state.

Very best to you, @Marvin The Cat

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

I need a good FL attorney who knows all about Covenents and Chain of Title. Would that be you? It’s not, however, about chickens. lol. Can you e m ail me at Joanne at Longview farms dot com? Thanks

Hi, it wouldn’t be me. I’m a government trial attorney that specializes in criminal law.

 

[Brooks_]

Hi, it wouldn’t be me. I’m a government trial attorney that specializes in criminal law.

Prosecution or defense?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Prosecution or defense?

He said government trial attorney. That's usually the prosecution. Unless another Government is suing them.

I do sort of wonder if he and I have met while I was on jury duty now, but won't ask which county out of respect for his privacy.

 

[Brooks_]

He said government trial attorney. That's usually the prosecution. Unless another Government is suing them.

Public defender is government, no?