Should poultry be raised in cities, county communities or near any of these?

[wkyongae]

No, no way ever. If so tell me why.

 

[Kingbobkingdom]

I think you can raise chickens in all of those places if they're suitable - I mean, with all the necessities like food, water, and a space to roam. I live in a city/suburb and keep chickens in my backyard, and they're happy and healthy. One of my friends who has chickens lives in a 'county community,' which may even be better than a city since chickens have a lot more places to forage there. I'm not saying that cities and county communities are the BEST places that chickens should be raised, but I think it's perfectly fine if they are raised there. Just wondering, why do you think they shouldn't?

 

[BerthaBoo]

I think as long as you're considering how much space each chicken needs in the coop/run, you're keeping your flock respective to the space you have available, and you're ethically caring for them, then it shouldn't matter where you live.

 

[wkyongae]

I think you can raise chickens in all of those places if they're suitable - I mean, with all the necessities like food, water, and a space to roam. I live in a city/suburb and keep chickens in my backyard, and they're happy and healthy. One of my friends who has chickens lives in a 'county community,' which may even be better than a city since chickens have a lot more places to forage there. I'm not saying that cities and county communities are the BEST places that chickens should be raised, but I think it's perfectly fine if they are raised there. Just wondering, why do you think they shouldn't?

Glad you asked this is exactly the reason I started this thread to have open conversation.
Okay my reasons.
Smell, flies, rodents, noise, pollution (chicken ), run off from poultry all the things large farms have to deal with that small backyard don't think about till someone complains. Death loss disposal, disposal of in trails when harvesting. My wife and I operate our own farm where we deal with all these areas so as nothing goes to waste. I've been farming for over sixty years from large commercial farms to small backyard. Our biggest question to the small backyard farms if it's not ideal to raise poultry in the setting you have why do it?

 

[BigBlueHen53]

I've lived in cities where there were "smell, flies, rodents, noise and pollution," and not a chicken within miles. These issues were obviously not due to the presence of chickens, but to the mismanagement and carelessness of humans only. In some cases, but not always, there were dogs and cats involved. Should we pass ordinances forbidding people to have or keep dogs or cats in "cities, county communities, or near any of these?" Or should we restrict people from living in "cities, county communities or near any of these" since it is clear that in many cases it is humans, not animals, that cause these problems?

People produce trash and often that trash stinks, spills out on the street, or blows into their neighbors' properties. Dogs and cats produce excrement that often is not contained on the owners' property, as these animals often wander about the neighborhood. Even if the animal is contained, the odors often are not. Urban chickens, on the other hand, typically are caged and cooped within the confines of their owners' properties, as these are vulnerable - and valuable - prey animals. Their excrement is valuable as compost to be used in gardening. Unlike cats and dogs, they produce eggs and meat and as such are likely to be carefully tended. Three or four hens in an urban dweller's back yard is a far cry from a commercial producer's millions of birds, and not likely to have a negative impact on a neighborhood, and I'm sure you're well aware of that fact.

 

[alinas2010]

I think these issues you mention are easier to control having a small flock versus a large one. Not saying they can’t still become issues with a small flock but there’s a lot less waste from a small one. I certainly don’t think people should keep 20 chickens in their small backyard in a city but if they have a small backyard flock or a few acres of property within city limits and means for properly caring for the chickens, I think its fine.

I love our small backyard flock, we choose to have them because the pros outweigh the cons. Possible cons you mention are waste, flies, smell, noise, run off from poultry….we mitigate these things fine with a small flock. I’m sure it’s more difficult with a large one. Also, not everyone keeps poultry to harvest them, especially those with backyard flocks.

They’re noisy when they lay, yes, but our small flock is a lot less noisy than obnoxious dogs all throughout the neighborhood.

As for the waste, rodents, smells and flies….we don’t see much of this around our property or at any of our neighbors’ who also all have small backyard flocks. There are ways to successfully mitigate these things. Not everyone who keeps poultry does diligently keep up with waste and such, I agree, but on the flip side, plenty of us do. We love our flocks and would hate to loose them because of neighbor complaints of these things.

I think overall part of keeping and providing for any animal means always thinking “what can I do better?” To me, that is where the thought of “well it isn’t ideal, but it works”, comes from. We (well me, personally, anyways) will always want to give them bigger and better…do they (5 hens) have more than enough room in their 8x8 coop and 18x8 run and our back yard to “free range” in on our acre and a half property in the city? Yes! More than enough! Do I wish they had more? Yes! I “ideally” would want them to have a huge heated barn and 5 acres to run around on with plenty of grass, bushes and trees to play in…there’s absolutely nothing wrong with what they have now, though, even if I want better for them. I love knowing that I’m giving a few hens a good home even if I have to mitigate the cons you mention. More chickens deserve good homes, even if it’s not 5 acres.

 

[wkyongae]

I've lived in cities where there were "smell, flies, rodents, noise and pollution," and not a chicken within miles. These issues were obviously not due to the presence of chickens, but to the mismanagement and carelessness of humans only. In some cases, but not always, there were dogs and cats involved. Should we pass ordinances forbidding people to have or keep dogs or cats in "cities, county communities, or near any of these?" Or should we restrict people from living in "cities, county communities or near any of these" since it is clear that in many cases it is humans, not animals, that cause these problems?

People produce trash and often that trash stinks, spills out on the street, or blows into their neighbors' properties. Dogs and cats produce excrement that often is not contained on the owners' property, as these animals often wander about the neighborhood. Even if the animal is contained, the odors often are not. Urban chickens, on the other hand, typically are caged and cooped within the confines of their owners' properties, as these are vulnerable - and valuable - prey animals. Their excrement is valuable as compost to be used in gardening. Unlike cats and dogs, they produce eggs and meat and as such are likely to be carefully tended. Three or four hens in an urban dweller's back yard is a far cry from a commercial producer's millions of birds, and not likely to have a negative impact on a neighborhood, and I'm sure you're well aware of that fact.

My wife and I enjoyed your comment. Except, we thought about it for a few minutes then said this. EPA animal units per acre. I'm going to include all possible animals in a given area of say a forty home area and each home sits on a typical half acre lot. Homes are large in these developments so available space for animals is around 1/8 acre to account for front yard. Now lets say half the homes have a dog or cat that's twenty animals. Let's ad in ten homes have five chickens each. That's 50 chickens for a 70 animal units in a given area. So basically the per acre animal unit would be 70 units per 3.6 acres. This is how state and local governments determine how many chickens people can have or not. The ten homes of the forty don't count because they don't have animals. So their land doesn't count. So my numbers may be off I'm not sure but as more people increase their animal units the problems become massive. Hard to believe average people are regulated just like large commercial farms.

 

[DonyaQuick]

Smell, flies, rodents, noise, pollution

Um..you ever been to NYC in the morning before the garbage trucks come? Those five words describe a lot of urban spaces very broadly and it has nothing to do with chickens. I guess some wealthy white picket fence type places are cleaner and quieter. Still, one place I worked could perhaps have used some office chickens to help eat the mice that kept infesting filing cabinets.

 

[wkyongae]

Hence the reason my wife and I live in the wilds of eastern Washington totally off grid. It saddens us to see people living and working in filthy conditions. But compound this problem with chickens a person starts to understand my point.

 

[BerthaBoo]

My wife and I enjoyed your comment. Except, we thought about it for a few minutes then said this. EPA animal units per acre. I'm going to include all possible animals in a given area of say a forty home area and each home sits on a typical half acre lot. Homes are large in these developments so available space for animals is around 1/8 acre to account for front yard. Now lets say half the homes have a dog or cat that's twenty animals. Let's ad in ten homes have five chickens each. That's 50 chickens for a 70 animal units in a given area. So basically the per acre animal unit would be 70 units per 3.6 acres. This is how state and local governments determine how many chickens people can have or not. The ten homes of the forty don't count because they don't have animals. So their land doesn't count. So my numbers may be off I'm not sure but as more people increase their animal units the problems become massive. Hard to believe average people are regulated just like large commercial farms.

I know I'm picking at just one point to your overall comment - but in my neck of the woods I believe our average folks are regulated more than commercial poultry businesses. While I don't live urban, all the nearby cities have started to instill urban hen policies. These policies are strict, require proof of chicken husbandry training, coop development permits, and lengthy applications in order to obtain 4 maximum hens; all of which must be over 16 weeks (I believe to mitigate the risk of accidentally ending up with roosters - which are not allowed). There are also extensive waste/carcass removal policies in place for these urban hen keepers who have managed to obtain a permit to keep 4 hens in their backyard.

With all these policies in place, I can't even begin to imagine how 4 hens in someone's backyard would add to a pollution problem.

Edited to add: whereas commercial barns in Alberta, Canada, before needing a quota, can have up to 2000 broilers. Farms can apply for a quota to raise above this. Broilers are obviously not going to be pasture/free range - so how is this not hugely more impactful than 4 hens in someone's backyard in the city?