new zealand rabbit color question

[littletonlee]

im new to raising meat rabbits. i have a rew nz buck and doe and also have 2 nz red does. i crossed my white buck with the to reds and got what i think are chestnuts from one and chestnuts and i think blacks from the other one. im just learning genetics so i am trying to figure out what my white is hiding. all help is welcome. forgot to mention the two reds are mother and daughter. the daughter had all chestnuts the mother had the mix.

 

[Bunnylady]

Welcome to BYC!

Since we are talking New Zealands, I'm thinking that those blacks are very likely steels.

 

[littletonlee]

what is the diffrence between blacks and steels?

 

[Bunnylady]

The ordinary way to get a black is a pair of self genes (aa). Both parents would have to have at least one self gene for that to happen. Steel is in the E series (Es). A self with steel would just look like a self; the only time you see the results of the steel gene is when the rabbit has the agouti gene (A) in the A series. The typical steel looks a bit like a very dark chestnut:



In the New Zealand, they often look like this:


Steel is a weird gene; how it gets expressed depends partly on which gene it is paired with in the E series. If it is paired with the normal extension gene (E), it looks like what is usually called a steel. If it is paired with something else, like harlequin (ej) or non-extension (e) it can be solid black, looking exactly like a genetic self. Sometimes that kind of steel will develop an overall, light ticking, looking a little bit like silvering (except the ticking covers only part of a hair, while silvers have entirely white hairs). Some people call a rabbit with two copies of the steel gene a "super steel;" that combination is solid black, too.

What makes things really crazy-making is that some New Zealands actually do carry self (a). Believe it or not, red is actually an agouti pattern color. If you take all of the other genes that it takes to make a red, and give it self genes rather than agouti, you get a tort - not a showable color in the NZ, but one that sometimes turns up.

(this is actually a breed called the Cinnamon, but the color is tort).

 

[littletonlee]

Thank you. Seems like there is so many variables that goes along with what the color could be. Thinking of keeping the darkest of the steels and trying to breed it with my buddies Nz black to see what I get

 

[littletonlee]

Is this considered a steel. She had 3 chestnuts the other 5 looked like this. Dad white Nz mom red nz.

 

[Waterwolf]

I bought this and it was suppose to be a red New Zealand, I am told by a few people on a Facebook rabbit site that they think it's a black tort New Zealand. I bred it a couple times to a couple of my New Zealand white bucks and I have come up with some interesting colours. Can somebody tell me the genetics behind a black tort and how it was made?

 

[BantamLover21]

View attachment 1063286
I bought this and it was suppose to be a red New Zealand, I am told by a few people on a Facebook rabbit site that they think it's a black tort New Zealand. I bred it a couple times to a couple of my New Zealand white bucks and I have come up with some interesting colours. Can somebody tell me the genetics behind a black tort and how it was made?

I can't tell you much about black tort genetics. However, I do want to say that your tort New Zealand may actually be a Cinnamon. Cinnamons are a relatively rare meat breed that I raised in the past. They have great temperaments and are generally very productive.

 

[Bunnylady]

View attachment 1063286
I bought this and it was suppose to be a red New Zealand, I am told by a few people on a Facebook rabbit site that they think it's a black tort New Zealand. I bred it a couple times to a couple of my New Zealand white bucks and I have come up with some interesting colours. Can somebody tell me the genetics behind a black tort and how it was made?

Tort:
aaB_C_D_ee - in other words, it's a combination of self plus non-extension.

Non-extension plus Agouti plus wide-band is what makes a Red in NZ's (A_B_C_D_eeww_)

Black could be either a self, or an agouti with Steel:
aaB_C_D_E_
A_B_C_D_Es_

Get the non-extension from a red (e), self from a black (a), and in a couple of generations, you can wind up with animals with both self and non-extension, which will be torts (unless there is also REW in the mix (c), in which case they could be white.)