Dominate vs Recessive White Gene

[Mr MKK FARMS]

Hey,

Just wondering how the dominate vs recessive white colour works. Are there certain breeds that always have the dominate white gene? If so which breeds would this include?

Thanks,

 

[Sneebsey]

White leghorn are Dominant white, as are any Pyle variety. Paint birds are single factor dominant white.

Dominant White dilutes eumelanin (black pigment) to white, with only a minor effect on pheomelanin (gold pigment). It is incomplete dominant, so a bird with a single copy of the gene will display differently to a bird pure for it; this is how we get paint, as a single-factor bird generally shows 'pigment holes' in the white, allowing the eumelanin to shine through, though this has to be bred for in order to achieve nice even spots.

Recessive white is recessive, so requires two copies in order to express. A bird pure for the gene will always be a crisp clear white, as it dilutes both eu- and pheo-melanin. With that in mind, a recessive white bird may have any number of genes hidden under the white, and may be based on any e-series.

To look at, I consider than recessive white often appears whiter than dominant, which may show pigment holes, stray black feathers, smuttiness and of course gold.

 

[Mr MKK FARMS]

So would white plymouth rocks have the dominate white as well? Or chanteclers?

 

[Sneebsey]

Leghorns are unusual in that their white variety is dom; it is not as effective at diluting eumelanin, and has little effect on pheomelanin, so ismore useful when breeding for white and red/gold patterns.

Most all white varieties are Recessive white; it covers all sins. With that said, a bird may be both recessive and dominant white, however without breeding from them there's no way to tell; the recessive white covers up everything else.

 

[Mofarmgirl]

I'm also trying to figure out how the silver gene works as far as white. And, many say the chicks that hatch silver/smoky with the silver gene, are not only a more crisp white, but are also male. I'm raising white Silkies so I guess I will watch for patterns in mine and see how it plays out. Genetics can be unpredictable..i heard a professor say, white is not white is not white. LoL

 

[Sneebsey]

Is that with recessive white, @Mofarmgirl? I believe the only tangible difference would be in the chick down, as recessive white is very powerful at pushing out pheomelanin, but then so is silver. If you are seeing more silver males from the group, it would indicate sex-linkage at play, so possibly some of your hens are silver, your cock, gold.

With that said, it is possible to create a self-white with silver and dominant white; I once had some white hens which bred as silver Colombians with dom white. I posit that they were from a female line to produce white-tailed red rsl.

I'd be interested to hear your findings; best of luck with your silkies.

 

[Mofarmgirl]

Is that with recessive white, @Mofarmgirl? I believe the only tangible difference would be in the chick down, as recessive white is very powerful at pushing out pheomelanin, but then so is silver. If you are seeing more silver males from the group, it would indicate sex-linkage at play, so possibly some of your hens are silver, your cock, gold.

With that said, it is possible to create a self-white with silver and dominant white; I once had some white hens which bred as silver Colombians with dom white. I posit that they were from a female line to produce white-tailed red rsl.

I'd be interested to hear your findings; best of luck with your silkies.

Thanks so much for that information, so interesting! That would be nice, sex-linked Silkies lol. They are so hard to sex until they crow or lay sometimes. I'm not sure if these are dominant or recessive. I've got a new trio out together as well and honestly I guess it's impossible to know until you raise many chicks and breed them back to the parents as to what the offspring will be, especially not knowing the long genetic history of each bird.

 

[Sneebsey]

White Silkies are usually recessive white, though I've heard of paint birds making their way into a white pen. It's always interesting to breed recessive white birds as there could be anything underneath. My white cockerel is gold/silver split duckwing, and he's also blue, which was a nice surprise.

 

[RowanTheRed]

Sorry, I don't want to hijack this thread, but @Sneebsey when you say "paint" would that be one that is predominantly white with a few random stray black feathers?

I have a pullet that is white with random black feathers. She's the offspring of a lavender amerauca rooster and a production red (possibly a golden comet) I've been trying to figure out what her pattern would be called. Her "spots" are not subtly like my splash orpington

 

[nicalandia]

I have a pullet that is white with random black feathers. She's the offspring of a lavender amerauca rooster and a production red (possibly a golden comet) I've been trying to figure out what her pattern would be called. Her "spots" are not subtly like my splash orpington

Your pullet is inheriting the Extended Black gene from the Lavender Ameraucana and the Heterozygous white gene from the production red hen, so she does in fact has a "Paint" pattern, the pattern is also called Erminette

Erminette breed from post https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/erminette.1052718/page-2#post-16307994