Roosters & Layer Feed; Lameness?

[2theDogz]

Hoping I don't get too long winded on this. It's occurred to me over the last few days that after getting on board with all the "my rooster does fine on layer feed", that may not be the case.
I have a 3 yr old rooster who I thought had a spur injury/infection at 1 year. I treated & he seemed better but now at 3yrs he moves like a graduate of Monty Python's "Silly Walks" Ministry. He's the only one of my original 3 to have issues.
Fast forward to last month. My 1 year old Welsummer roo began with weakness in one leg, no discernable injury. It progressed to him not wanting to get up at all so we very regrettably decided to cull.
This week-- my 4 month old marans roo has started with the same symptoms...weak in the legs and looking ragged.
Yes, Mareks flashed into my mind. But --- why are all the girls boisterous and lovely?
It finally dawned on me that this could be related to diet. Although they haven't been on adult feed long, I feel in my gut this is the issue.
Thoughts or advice on this? I picked up all flock with .8% calcium compared to 3.5% in the layer feed. Really hoping we can turn him around.

 

[Debbie292d]

I doubt it's the calcium as I've read they'd have to live to be 20 years for the effects of too much calcium to cause any issues. Especially your younger ones it couldn't even be possible. It can't hurt trying all flock though for your rooster.

Thousands upon thousands feed layer feed to all of their chickens without an issue. I'm not one of them though as I mix All Flock 50-50 with layer, so that way they're getting a little higher protein and the roosters won't get as much calcium as they were.

Funny thing though that I set out a dish of oyster shell and the oldest rooster here goes over and eats some regularly. Maybe his old bones need it or something now that I switched.

The next chicken that dies or that you cull, I would take in for a necropsy so you'll know for sure.

 

[Shadrach]

Too much calcium effects a roosters liver and kidneys and in general one doesn't see the problem until they die.
I don't think the problems you are dealing with are calcium related.

 

[2theDogz]

Too much calcium effects a roosters liver and kidneys and in general one doesn't see the problem until they die.
I don't think the problems you are dealing with are calcium related.

If you read up on gout (articular gout, specifically) in chickens/roosters, you'll see there's a definitive connection to excess calcium in the diet.

See more at: https://poultrydvm.com/condition/gout

 

[2theDogz]

I doubt it's the calcium as I've read they'd have to live to be 20 years for the effects of too much calcium to cause any issues. Especially your younger ones it couldn't even be possible. It can't hurt trying all flock though for your rooster.

Thousands upon thousands feed layer feed to all of their chickens without an issue. I'm not one of them though as I mix All Flock 50-50 with layer, so that way they're getting a little higher protein and the roosters won't get as much calcium as they were.

Funny thing though that I set out a dish of oyster shell and the oldest rooster here goes over and eats some regularly. Maybe his old bones need it or something now that I switched.

The next chicken that dies or that you cull, I would take in for a necropsy so you'll know for sure.

Where did you read it wouldctake 20 years in a chicken? Visible Gout is common in chickens, the result of the buildup of urates caused by excess calcium's effect on kidneys.
This is why I suspect calcium/layer feed. It may be some other nutritional issue or perhaps a combination, but I know of no diseases that would single out a lone male & leave all the females unscathed. If you do, please share.

 

[Debbie292d]

Where did you read it wouldctake 20 years in a chicken? Visible Gout is common in chickens, the result of the buildup of urates caused by excess calcium's effect on kidneys.
This is why I suspect calcium/layer feed. It may be some other nutritional issue or perhaps a combination, but I know of no diseases that would single out a lone male & leave all the females unscathed. If you do, please share.

I don't remember and not going to search for who says that, but it's just logical when we used to do what thousands do and don't have issues, and some may have had some had they lived longer, as @Shadrach said above. If our chickens live to the age their breed usually does, nobody is the wiser of any disorders they may have brewing that wouldn't expose themselves in several more years.

You unfortunately have a rooster that's most likely suffering from too much calcium, and I'm sorry, but it isn't something we hear as much of compared to other chicken ailments. You said you recently started the 4-month-old who is having issues on the layer feed so that was another reason I questioned the calcium being blamed as usually it takes time for it to cause problems, if any. There's calcium in scraps, mealworms, etc., so they can get it from other sources as well. Too high of protein can do the same thing.

As I mentioned, last year we switched from feeding 100% layer feed to all of the adults to mixing it 50/50 with all flock and setting out oyster shell. They all had been getting layer feed the prior 7 years with no issues.

I wish you all the best with your rooster(s).

 

[Shadrach]

If you read up on gout (articular gout, specifically) in chickens/roosters, you'll see there's a definitive connection to excess calcium in the diet.

See more at: https://poultrydvm.com/condition/gout

Yes, I've read this link and many others before having had two roosters die of hypercalcemia/and or liver and kidney function deteriorating undetected over time.
It's just the symptomes you describe do not match the symptoms I've seen.
A very competent local vet cut them open, I wouldn't describe it as a full necropsy, but both kidney and liver had been affected.

The paper you linked to is for gout. Do you think your roosters are dying from gout? Have you found any swelling around the joints? It's reasonably obvious if one looks up a few pictures on the net to compare to.

In my cases a contributing factor which I hadn't considered before was how the free range chickens I looked after ate. The hens would go out foraging while the roosters stood guard. If the roosters did dig and dug up something nice, they called the hens and they ate whatever it was. The only food the roosters didn't offer to the hens and sometimes would insist on eating first, was the commercial feed I gave them twice a day. While this was layers pellets it meant that the rooster probably ate most of his daily nutrition over two feeding times. Say such a rooster ate 130 grams of food a day. Even allowing for some day time snacking the rooster is still packing in a lot of calcium in one go. I switched to a local low calcium feed (1.1%) and had no further problems.

I hope you have identified the problem correctly and the change to a low calcium feed gets him on the road to recovery. However, I think it would be wise to consider carefully the possibility that there may be a different problem.

 

[Ridgerunner]

my 4 month old marans roo has started with the same symptoms...weak in the legs and looking ragged.

At that age it would be strange to for it to be gout. At that age the looking ragged could easily be a juvenile molt but that would not explain the weak legs.

I agree, it is strange that it only seems to affect the boys. Since they are different breeds it is obviously not something genetic.

If you are in the USA you might call your county extension office and see what it would take to get a necropsy. A necropsy is where they cut them open to try to determine the cause of death. Questions to ask would be cost, where do you take the body when it dies, and how do you preserve the body to bring it in. Usually they want it packed in ice but not frozen but let them tell you.

 

[2theDogz]

Yes, I've read this link and many others before having had two roosters die of hypercalcemia/and or liver and kidney function deteriorating undetected over time.
It's just the symptomes you describe do not match the symptoms I've seen.
A very competent local vet cut them open, I wouldn't describe it as a full necropsy, but both kidney and liver had been affected.

The paper you linked to is for gout. Do you think your roosters are dying from gout? Have you found any swelling around the joints? It's reasonably obvious if one looks up a few pictures on the net to compare to.

In my cases a contributing factor which I hadn't considered before was how the free range chickens I looked after ate. The hens would go out foraging while the roosters stood guard. If the roosters did dig and dug up something nice, they called the hens and they ate whatever it was. The only food the roosters didn't offer to the hens and sometimes would insist on eating first, was the commercial feed I gave them twice a day. While this was layers pellets it meant that the rooster probably ate most of his daily nutrition over two feeding times. Say such a rooster ate 130 grams of food a day. Even allowing for some day time snacking the rooster is still packing in a lot of calcium in one go. I switched to a local low calcium feed (1.1%) and had no further problems.

I hope you have identified the problem correctly and the change to a low calcium feed gets him on the road to recovery. However, I think it would be wise to consider carefully the possibility that there may be a different problem.

Thanks for your response. To be clear, they aren't actually dying from this.
The first roo is going on 4 yrs and gets around well despite his painful feet.
We put the 1yr roo down due to increasing lameness.
The 4 mo (almost 5) is still getting around but gets up slowly and rests alot. One of my bantam roos challenged him yesterday & he couldn't really spar -- one of his girls stepped up & schooled the little guy.
Reading up on gout, the symptoms of articular gout specifically can be lameness, affecting not just the feet but other joints. This is what I'm seeing/saw in the younger 2. Wobbly feet & legs.
My gut says this must be a nutritional issue simply because no hens have been affected. I don't believe that would be the case if it were environmental. And since none of them are related there's no genetic link.
So, excess calcium & it's link to foot/leg issues in roosters was my first thought. But it could be something else. I switched to the current, less expensive layer feed a while back & am now wondering if it's just not good quality. I mean, my hens are gorgeous on the stuff but...?
Frustrating.