Whole buncha questions

[saysfaa]

Have you considered a single run around all of it with chicken wire divisions or a chicken wire pen to be moved around inside the single run?

 

[Hamstermann]

Could you sketch up a plan for the sections and show us photos of the proposed location?

Plans are still forthcoming. I keep trying to generate them in sketchup and then get bogged down in analysis paralysis. But here are some pics of the area:

The grass area is where We'd be moving the run and coop back and forth. the vinyl fence is east and the east-west measurement is the 14ft. according to city law, we can't put the run clsoer than 15 feet to a neighbor's house and that 15 is the western edge of the east mulch area, if that makes sense.

. What kind of wind and snow loads can you expect?

3 times in the 8.5 years we've lived here we've had winds strong enough to topple fences and strip siding from houses. not tornado weather (thankfully we've seen no flying cows) but strong enough. that vinyl fence is there because the wood one that was there before and had rotting posts was knocked down.

edited to add: Snowload - I think the building requirements say that we should build for 40 pounds per square foot? or maybe it's per square inch? I know that's a big difference. guess I'll need to double-check it.

some definitions:

Deep Bedding: A dry, non-composting system where you keep adding bedding to the coop as it becomes soiled -- managing it by turning it as necessary (or getting the chickens to turn it for you) -- and clean it out only infrequently when the bedding has become both thoroughly soiled and piled up to the point of not being able to add more. Usually used above a floor in the coop but *can* be done in a covered run over dirt in a favorable climate.


Deep Litter: A moist (not wet, moist), system where the lower layers of material are actively composting while new, dry material is continually added to the top. *Can* be done on any floor surface but is most readily accomplished on a dirt floor because the dirt will seed the material with the beneficial composting organisms.


It’s *possible* to use Deep Litter in a raised coop, but very difficult. You probably want to aim for Deep Bedding. Here is my article on the subject: https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/using-deep-bedding-in-a-small-coop.76343/

Great article, thanks! I didn't realise there was a difference. We'll probably use deep bedding and then clean it out into the run where it can break down as deep litter.

As for how often we'll move it, I guess that depends on the footprint we end up with and how long it takes for the litter on the tractor floor to get deep enough that we need to till it in. Maybe every 2-3 months? or maybe a year?

Doing the run and coop as separate things is an interesting thought that I'll need to ponder more. We are limited in square feet. any structure with a sheet roof over 200 square feet has to have a permit to build and that's an expensive, frustrating process.

 

[3KillerBs]

That space will probably not be large enough to move to keep grass green but can be divided for rotating garden beds.

One way to do that other than moving the entire structure is to put a permanent structure in between two or more pens that you can use to alternate between chickens and garden.

https://www.dummies.com/article/hom...tate-permanent-runs-for-your-chickens-162964/

 

[Hamstermann]

That space will probably not be large enough to move to keep grass green but can be divided for rotating garden beds.

One way to do that other than moving the entire structure is to put a permanent structure in between two or more pens that you can use to alternate between chickens and garden.

https://www.dummies.com/article/hom...tate-permanent-runs-for-your-chickens-162964/

Interesting thought. So something like the coop up against the wood gate, a chain-link (or other permanent) fence down the middle, and the coop would have a chicken door on each side of that fence so we could control which side the chickens went into? garden on one side, then run on the other. and when we wanted to switch, we just open/shut the appropriate door.

I like that thought. may be interesting to implement as we'd want to exclude them from the mulched areas as well so my berry bushes can grow and produce. I'm not sure I like the idea of a chain link fence in particular because there's no easy way to cover it for winter and I don't want to have to cement poles into the land. Still worth pondering other options for fencing though because I really like the idea of not moving the coop but still being able to subdivide the yard into sections.

I'm not too concerned about keeping the grass green. a lot of the reason we want to put them there is so that they can take out the grass for us and start to fertilize and till the clay loam that it's growing in so we can then turn it into a vegetable garden the following year.

What do you think, @georgebrat04?

 

[3KillerBs]

Interesting thought. So something like the coop up against the wood gate, a chain-link (or other permanent) fence down the middle, and the coop would have a chicken door on each side of that fence so we could control which side the chickens went into? garden on one side, then run on the other. and when we wanted to switch, we just open/shut the appropriate door.

It needn't be chain link. If the outer perimeter is predator-secure the inner dividers need only be strong enough to hold chickens.

It can also be accomplished with a movable run such as electric poultry netting.

 

[georgebrat04]

I do like the idea of having 2 coop doors to different areas of the yard. Let's go over that a bit more and see if it's feasible.

 

[Hamstermann]

So I've started build on a modified version of this coop where I changed it to be 5x10 instead of 8x10 in hopes of keeping the weight down and putting wheels on it so it's moveable. I wonder though - do coops need floors in winter climates if the nest boxes are enclosed on all sides except the one that faces the hen house and the roosts are protected from wind on 4 sides? If the roosts are above the nesting boxes and high enough up the walls that they're not in direct wind but also have a well-ventilated area above them to let the ammonia fumes out, can I save weight by not putting in a floor on the henhouse? That way the girls are only in there to sleep or lay and the rest of the time they play on the ground that the coop sits on?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Your birds are going to absolutely destroy that space. In weeks, not seasons. Do yourself a favor, put the coop in the middle of the space. Put a door on opposite sides. Run a fence to spli things in half. Expect it all to become dirt.

Snow loads for 20 psf is the equivalent of 14" accumulation of "perfect" snow, about half that of wet dense snow. A #2 grade 2x4 will carry that, easily, across a 6' span, set 2' on center. Very rare for a need to frame a hen house in anything heavier. Most span and load tables are designed for human occupation and use 1/360 or 1/240 deflection tables - which is not the failure point, and assume 10 psf dead load in addition. Typical dead load on a chicken coop is less than 2 psf, so you have an additional safety factor there as well.

 

[Hamstermann]

Thanks for replying. the space in your picture is where we were thinking of actually intentionally allowing them to destroy the space, then turning it into a garden. That's not really the plan anymore. We have more backyard than that to move them around and (assuming the coop does turn out to be mobile) would move them before they had a chance to destroy too much lawn - every day or two, ideally. And then we'd park them in that "garden" area for winter, or on a section of lawn that's already patchy anyway.

I don't understand all the engineer stuff in your last paragraph though. What are deflection tables and what do the numbers relating to them mean? Also, can you clarify more about dead loads? It sounded like you were saying that the plan is overkill or just right as far as strength, but then you said there's a safety factor in having a lighter load on a chicken coop? Does that mean that the plan is not strong enough or that it's more than strong enough and a bit overkill?

When I built a deck on my house, the city made me plan for 30psf snow load - would 2x4s spaced 2 feet apart handle that as well?

Any opinions as well about whether using that design without a hen house floor would keep the chickens warm enough?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

http://www.southernpine.com/app/uploads/SPtable18_060113.pdf (for 30 psf)

Sadly, they don't make the table for 2x4s because the allowed spacing is too small to be useful in home building.

"Live Load" is whatever you put on top of a roof - you walking on it, rain, snow, etc.

"Dead Load" is the weight of the roof itself, over the rafter. In the typical house, its 1/2" (or thicker) plywood decking, one or two layers of felt, one or two layers of shingles. On the typiccal chicken coop, its a layer of thin sheetmetal, poycarbonate, or some 1/2" decking and soime form of coating - usually much lighter than traditional house build. Meaning less "dead load" which allows more potential "live load" over a given span.

and #2 grade is about the lowest quality you are likely to see in the typical big box store.