Water bed incubation

[Stanpott]

Three years ago I bought a cheap waterbed incubator. Since then I have become such a big fan of water bed hatching! It is just so simple, dry hatch, no moving parts, just a heat pad, a thermostat, a bag of water in an insulated box! The temperatures are amazingly consistent, so since the eggs are all being treated the same the hatch window narrows and the chicks are just happier and healthier...but I feel so alone! There just doesn't seem to be anyone talking about water bed hatching...and it is not the same as circulated air hatching or still air hatching. I've been consistent with "decent" hatches. I've tried something a little different every hatch. I've tried to follow guidelines from

Introduction of the Water-bed Incubation Technology to Rural Poultry Farmers in Bauchi State, Nigeria​

Which is about the only credible study I can find on water bed hatching. If I had followed the generic still air directions that come with these incubators I'm sure my first hatch would have been a disaster and I would have set the incubator aside...perhaps turned it into a cozy bed for my geriatric cat. As it is though, this year I got rid of my still air incubators and have hatched just with the water bed. I only do a couple of small hatches each year. The water bed is right for me, I just hatch a few eggs for my own entertainment, it won't appeal to any one hatching large volumes.

 

[roo12345]

I'm currently 2 days in to my first time incubating eggs and am using a waterbed incubator because I was curious about it and figured it was worth a try. I'm using it on quail eggs.
I found your post because I keep googling waterbed incubation to try to find more resources to help make sure I do things right. Feels a little bit like a guessing game right now.

 

[Stanpott]

I wrote this for some one I managed to interest in waterbed hatching. I tried to keep it brief, I'm not good at that!

I have struggled to find a good set temperature for water bed hatching. The instructions they come with are just generic still air incubator instructions, but even in a still air incubator the air is heated and the egg is surrounded by it. In a waterbed incubator the water bag is heated the egg gets its heat from the contact with the water bag so the bottom of the egg is close to the temperature of the water bag but the temperature of the top of the egg kind of depends on the insulation of the incubator and the blankets over the eggs. The temperature difference between the top of the egg and the bottom is much greater than I ever thought. For this hatch I bought a Braun ear thermometer that shows it really well. For instance I'm still setting this little incubator, the temperature at the top of the egg is 37.2, the temperature at the bottom is 39.1. I don't know if it is accurate to assume that the actual temperature inside the egg is the average of those two(38.1)..but that is what I'm doing to establish a set temperature and what I'm finding is in line with the only research I can find on water bed hatching.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...Rural_Poultry_Farmers_in_Bauchi_State_Nigeria
They recommend a set temperature of 39 for days 1-3, a temperature of 38 for days 4-12, a temperature of 37.6 for days 13-16 and a final hatch temperature of 37.
My only addition to that would be to insert a temperature of 38.5 for days 3-6.

Anyways until now I've used a non contact forehead thermometer to monitor the eggs. It's easy and fast and gives a good idea of what is happening. At first the shell temperature cools very quickly when you open the incubator but as the days go by it cools slower, by about day 6 the circulation is established and the egg shell temperature starts to become closer to the same temperature top and bottom, by day ten the eggshell temperatures are really starting to increase and you can start to identify dead eggs because their low temperature. There is much information out there about making use of egg shell temperatures, these non contact forehead thermometers just are not accurate enough but they do show the trends and they can help you to know when it is time to adjust the incubator.
The reason I'm telling you all this is because after a week the incubator kind of goes from heating the eggs to cooling. In a circulated air incubator many people just set the temp at 37.5 and leave it at that set until hatch. They might find some improvement by making use of egg shell temperatures but the incubator itself compensates...on day one air blowing at 37.5 warms the eggs, by day ten when the egg shell temperature has increased to over 37.5 the air circulating at 37.5 is cooler than the eggs so it actually cools them. With a waterbed incubator you need to compensate for the increase in heat that the embryos are producing by removing a blanket and by lowering the waterbed temperature.
The directions that come with these waterbed incubators say to set the temperature at 38. With my last hatch my old thermostat had drifted to the point where I could not get the waterbed past 38. I thought "It'll be fine, that is right where they are telling me to set it" but it wasn't...only 3 out of 22 eggs hatched and they hatched over a day late!

Anyways I use two blankets to start with. I weigh all the eggs before I set them and mark the weight on the egg. All the waterbed hatches I have done have been dry hatch but still I check the combined weight loss of 5 or six random eggs at 7 days and again later if I have any doubts. I adjust the temperature as time goes by pretty much using the values in the African study. I remove one blanket, probably about day 12 or 14 when the egg shell temperatures are starting to get high. On day 18 I throw a carrot or two in, put the blanket over the eggs and wait until day 21, I take the chicks out if they climb out onto the blanket, otherwise I try to wait and not to peek!
I try to get all the air out of the waterbed and try to make a nice wrinkle free bed, I tape the thermostat probe and the thermometer probe to the bag...just a piece of tape behind the sensor since I don't want to have to deal with tape or adhesive on the sensor after the hatch. I tape the end of the water bag to the wall of the incubator...I'd suggest not to use duct tape...it can be hard to remove after 21 days in the incubator! I use a piece of drawer liner over the bag, I feel like it keeps the probes secure and like it is better for chicks than the plastic bag but it does affect the direct contact between the bag and the egg so I don't know if it is a good idea. I turn the eggs three times a day but that is just a number that works for me.

I found this article on CO2 very interesting because he summarizes how a broody hen operates so well. Also his graph showing "Attentiveness" validates how I use the blankets. It is a short easy read.
https://www.petersime.com/expertise/understanding-the-role-of-co2-in-commercial-incubation
https://www.petersime.com/expertise/understanding-the-role-of-co2-in-commercial-incubation
.
I'm sorry for writing a book and I hope I haven't made it too confusing, but I know it is really difficult to find good information about water bed hatching, but I'm still learning and a lot of it is by trial and error!

 

[Stanpott]

I'm currently 2 days in to my first time incubating eggs and am using a waterbed incubator because I was curious about it and figured it was worth a try. I'm using it on quail eggs.
I found your post because I keep googling waterbed incubation to try to find more resources to help make sure I do things right. Feels a little bit like a guessing game right now.

How is it going so far? I kind of summarized what I have done that has worked reasonably well for me. I have only hatched chicken eggs. Interesting enough the instructions that come with these incubators actually call for a higher setting for quail than for chickens, and yet to me it seems like the setting should be lower for smaller eggs...but then again their setting for chicken is 38...and I feel like I have established that 38 is too low, so the 38.5 they recommend for quail is probably very close!

 

[Stanpott]

I did come up with a regime I'll test next year on my next hatch that varies a bit from the nigerian study, I'll post it if anyone is interested, however I should mention the biggest difference, last hatch I concluded that the right waterbed temperature for day 18 is 37.5 (not the 37). I used egg shell temperatures to determine that and I think there is a very simple and obvious reason that the final hatch temperature varies from the study. My Basement where I hatch is between 19 and 20, the waterbed incubator described in the study and located close to the equator in a brick room would probably heat the room to over 30!

 

[roo12345]

I wrote this for some one I managed to interest in waterbed hatching. I tried to keep it brief, I'm not good at that!

I have struggled to find a good set temperature for water bed hatching. The instructions they come with are just generic still air incubator instructions, but even in a still air incubator the air is heated and the egg is surrounded by it. In a waterbed incubator the water bag is heated the egg gets its heat from the contact with the water bag so the bottom of the egg is close to the temperature of the water bag but the temperature of the top of the egg kind of depends on the insulation of the incubator and the blankets over the eggs. The temperature difference between the top of the egg and the bottom is much greater than I ever thought. For this hatch I bought a Braun ear thermometer that shows it really well. For instance I'm still setting this little incubator, the temperature at the top of the egg is 37.2, the temperature at the bottom is 39.1. I don't know if it is accurate to assume that the actual temperature inside the egg is the average of those two(38.1)..but that is what I'm doing to establish a set temperature and what I'm finding is in line with the only research I can find on water bed hatching.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...Rural_Poultry_Farmers_in_Bauchi_State_Nigeria
They recommend a set temperature of 39 for days 1-3, a temperature of 38 for days 4-12, a temperature of 37.6 for days 13-16 and a final hatch temperature of 37.
My only addition to that would be to insert a temperature of 38.5 for days 3-6.

Anyways until now I've used a non contact forehead thermometer to monitor the eggs. It's easy and fast and gives a good idea of what is happening. At first the shell temperature cools very quickly when you open the incubator but as the days go by it cools slower, by about day 6 the circulation is established and the egg shell temperature starts to become closer to the same temperature top and bottom, by day ten the eggshell temperatures are really starting to increase and you can start to identify dead eggs because their low temperature. There is much information out there about making use of egg shell temperatures, these non contact forehead thermometers just are not accurate enough but they do show the trends and they can help you to know when it is time to adjust the incubator.
The reason I'm telling you all this is because after a week the incubator kind of goes from heating the eggs to cooling. In a circulated air incubator many people just set the temp at 37.5 and leave it at that set until hatch. They might find some improvement by making use of egg shell temperatures but the incubator itself compensates...on day one air blowing at 37.5 warms the eggs, by day ten when the egg shell temperature has increased to over 37.5 the air circulating at 37.5 is cooler than the eggs so it actually cools them. With a waterbed incubator you need to compensate for the increase in heat that the embryos are producing by removing a blanket and by lowering the waterbed temperature.
The directions that come with these waterbed incubators say to set the temperature at 38. With my last hatch my old thermostat had drifted to the point where I could not get the waterbed past 38. I thought "It'll be fine, that is right where they are telling me to set it" but it wasn't...only 3 out of 22 eggs hatched and they hatched over a day late!

Anyways I use two blankets to start with. I weigh all the eggs before I set them and mark the weight on the egg. All the waterbed hatches I have done have been dry hatch but still I check the combined weight loss of 5 or six random eggs at 7 days and again later if I have any doubts. I adjust the temperature as time goes by pretty much using the values in the African study. I remove one blanket, probably about day 12 or 14 when the egg shell temperatures are starting to get high. On day 18 I throw a carrot or two in, put the blanket over the eggs and wait until day 21, I take the chicks out if they climb out onto the blanket, otherwise I try to wait and not to peek!
I try to get all the air out of the waterbed and try to make a nice wrinkle free bed, I tape the thermostat probe and the thermometer probe to the bag...just a piece of tape behind the sensor since I don't want to have to deal with tape or adhesive on the sensor after the hatch. I tape the end of the water bag to the wall of the incubator...I'd suggest not to use duct tape...it can be hard to remove after 21 days in the incubator! I use a piece of drawer liner over the bag, I feel like it keeps the probes secure and like it is better for chicks than the plastic bag but it does affect the direct contact between the bag and the egg so I don't know if it is a good idea. I turn the eggs three times a day but that is just a number that works for me.

I found this article on CO2 very interesting because he summarizes how a broody hen operates so well. Also his graph showing "Attentiveness" validates how I use the blankets. It is a short easy read.
https://www.petersime.com/expertise/understanding-the-role-of-co2-in-commercial-incubation
https://www.petersime.com/expertise/understanding-the-role-of-co2-in-commercial-incubation
.
I'm sorry for writing a book and I hope I haven't made it too confusing, but I know it is really difficult to find good information about water bed hatching, but I'm still learning and a lot of it is by trial and error!

This is such helpful and great information! Thank you for sharing

 

[roo12345]

How is it going so far? I kind of summarized what I have done that has worked reasonably well for me. I have only hatched chicken eggs. Interesting enough the instructions that come with these incubators actually call for a higher setting for quail than for chickens, and yet to me it seems like the setting should be lower for smaller eggs...but then again their setting for chicken is 38...and I feel like I have established that 38 is too low, so the 38.5 they recommend for quail is probably very close!

So far it seems to be going well. I am on day 8 today. I candled the eggs to see if things are developing and 12 out of 17 eggs were showing signs of development. And 3 more might be, but I couldn't see very well through those egg shells because they had such large dark spots.

I was concerned by the higher settings for the quail eggs at first too. But after research and thinking about things it kind of makes sense. Quail grow faster and hatch faster in comparison to chickens. And in the brooder you keep that a few degrees higher than you do for chickens as well.

I do have a few questions for you.
Do you leave the chicks in the incubator for as long as people with other incubators do?
That's part of all of this that I am unsure of. It's such a small incubator and with the water bed it'd be hard to walk on. I was thinking about maybe just waiting until they are dry and then moving them to the brooder.

I know a lot of people put down cabinet grippy material (no idea the actual name of that stuff) in their incubators so the chicks don't get splay leg and have an easier time getting a grip to walk. But I think that stuff would be too thick to put on the waterbed and not have it affect temperature.
I was thinking though that maybe some paper towel could get a grippy effect on the waterbed without affecting temperature on the surface too much when things go into lockdown.
Do you put anything down for grip?

With lockdown, since the heat is more in the surface than the air, I am curious if opening the incubator has as much of an effect on the chicks in the eggs as with the other types of incubators.
The incubator I have doesn't even have a fully enclosed lid. So the primary thing keeping any heat in the air in the incubator is the blanket over the top of the eggs. So I'm not sure if it affects it quite as much. That is something I'm unsure of on things.
And I'm not entirely sure how to keep humidity high toward the end as well because it's not really fully enclosed.
I'm wondering if maybe I should run a humidifier those last days to try to help or if putting a wet sponge in would be enough to help.
This whole thing definitely feels like quite the experiment.

Thank you for sharing about your experiences with this incubation method.

 

[Stanpott]

So far it seems to be going well. I am on day 8 today. I candled the eggs to see if things are developing and 12 out of 17 eggs were showing signs of development. And 3 more might be, but I couldn't see very well through those egg shells because they had such large dark spots.

I was concerned by the higher settings for the quail eggs at first too. But after research and thinking about things it kind of makes sense. Quail grow faster and hatch faster in comparison to chickens. And in the brooder you keep that a few degrees higher than you do for chickens as well.

I do have a few questions for you.
Do you leave the chicks in the incubator for as long as people with other incubators do?
That's part of all of this that I am unsure of. It's such a small incubator and with the water bed it'd be hard to walk on. I was thinking about maybe just waiting until they are dry and then moving them to the brooder.

I know a lot of people put down cabinet grippy material (no idea the actual name of that stuff) in their incubators so the chicks don't get splay leg and have an easier time getting a grip to walk. But I think that stuff would be too thick to put on the waterbed and not have it affect temperature.
I was thinking though that maybe some paper towel could get a grippy effect on the waterbed without affecting temperature on the surface too much when things go into lockdown.
Do you put anything down for grip?

With lockdown, since the heat is more in the surface than the air, I am curious if opening the incubator has as much of an effect on the chicks in the eggs as with the other types of incubators.
The incubator I have doesn't even have a fully enclosed lid. So the primary thing keeping any heat in the air in the incubator is the blanket over the top of the eggs. So I'm not sure if it affects it quite as much. That is something I'm unsure of on things.
And I'm not entirely sure how to keep humidity high toward the end as well because it's not really fully enclosed.
I'm wondering if maybe I should run a humidifier those last days to try to help or if putting a wet sponge in would be enough to help.
This whole thing definitely feels like quite the experiment.

Thank you for sharing about your experiences with this incubation method.

I usually try to wait until the 504 hours have passed before I move the blanket. I grab out the dry chicks and the shells. In every hatch there are always a few that end up on top of the blanket. You will hear them because they get very distraught! I either tuck them back under or put them in the brooder. The hatch is the best part because they are so soothed by the blanket over them that they are very quiet other than their cries when they bust out. You think only a few have hatched...but when you move the blanket you find out almost all have hatched. With the exception of this last hatch (could be the different breeds involved) all the hatches have been very fast, probably because the eggs are all getting the same treatment. Usually 12 hours after you hear the first one hatch, the last is hatching. Last eggs I incubated though were spread out over 24 hours, I don't think I hurt anything by removing chicks a few times before the last ones hatched. I leave anything wet in...if for no other reason they are great for humidity!
I really like the carrots for humidity, they last three days! I have used a wet rag before, but it leaks onto the bag and dries quickly. I don't like to mist chicken eggs...the cooling effect of being sprayed by water is so traumatic...the eggs that have pipped internally certainly voice their objection! However the cooling may be beneficial...and that is what the incubator instructions all say to do.
I do use a drawer/shelf liner over the bag...it is a very thin mesh...but I absolutely agree...it does have an affect on the surface of the egg in contact with the bag, it isn't really necessary for the chicks...they have the blanket over them, I just like it to keep my probes in place. I did test the temperature difference, it is 0.2c even with the flimsy stuff I use!