Thoughts on organic chicken feed. What is your opinion?

[Peter_Rabbit_Farm]

I want to get peoples opinions on organic feeds. I just want to know why people feed organic over non organic feeds.

I personally am not a fan of organic for the following reasons

1. The main selling point is that it is organic, but compared to the other feeds there is a lack in overall nutrition. When looking at the organic tags I see barely any vitamins or minerals, that make chicken feed a compete feed.
2. There are still pesticides sprayed on the grains, just organic approved ones. I mean isn’t pesticides, pesticides organic or not
3. The price does not seem to justify the product to me. A normal bag with better nutrition costs around $15 a bag vs the organic at $27.

I personally don’t see the point, but that is why I am making this thread to learn more and get others thoughts on the matter.

I feed my birds nutrena all flock since I have roosters, and they can’t eat layer feed. I will also soak alfalfa cubes with different grains for 2 days and give the mash to them as a treat/supplement. They also get grain free dog food as a small part of their diet as well to add animal protein/fats into their diet. Also some fish/duckweed on occasion for omega 3. I try to avoid corn and soy.

 

[nuthatched]

Which brands are you comparing?

 

[BlindLemonChicken]

Certified organic is incredibility hard to get. I don't mean buying the food but for a company to get the certification. I don't know about animal food but for human consumption no pesticides for years on the soil before it is planted and never after so I'm not sure why they would use them on animal food. Where are you finding animal food specific information?

 

[Peter_Rabbit_Farm]

​

Dumor, naturwise, Purina manufactured feeds, and a few more. are few off the top of my head for the organic. ( I am mainly talking about your main brand organic feeds not smaller brands)​

I was comparing the organic To the non organic of the same brands I noticed that there are more vitamins listed on the non organic than the organic on the nutritional percentages and ingredients. Also a better lysine, and fat percentage (within same brand and verity)​

now I know scratch and peck is a good organic brand, and is typically used For fermenting the feed, that is the only organic feed I have found that is worth the higher price in my area, but it is a steep price of $43 for a 50lb bag, especially when I go through 150lb of feed a week for my chickens.


P.S. sorry about the weird bold text my phone was getting wacky either the bold font.

 

[Weeg]

I think its an absolute must.
Corn and soy are the top two most heavily sprayed crop in the US. They are sprayed with Roundup right before harvest, which as well know, contains Glyphosate. That means that your birds are getting a direct dose of Glyphosate in their feed, which causes cancer.
Its also sprayed with loads of other pesticides.
Non-Organic feeds I find also have lower quality grains.
This is a Purina Flock Raiser ingredient list-

Purina Flock Raiser

INGREDIENTS: Ground corn, dehulled soybean meal, corn distillers, dried grains, monocalcium phosphate, dicalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, wheat middlings, salt, magnesium sulfate, potassium sulfate, L-Lysine, DL-Methionine, Choline Chloride, Vitamin D3 supplement, tagetes extract, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, vitamin E supplement, menadione sodium bisulfate complex, calcium supplement, folic acid, pyridoxine hydrochloride, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, calcium lodate and sodium selenite. Animal fat and protein free.

Both are fairly similar in the mineral mix department, but the grains in the Scratch and Peck starter that I feed listed below are much higher quality.

Scratch and Peck Starter

Organic Wheat, Organic Peas, Organic Barley, Organic Flaxseed Meal, Fish Meal, Organic Sesame Meal, Ground Limestone, Organic Flaxseed Oil, Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Organic Dehydrated Kelp Meal, Salt, dl-Methionine, Choline Chloride, Ferrous Sulfate, Organic Wheat Flour, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Extract, Dried Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles Extract, Dried Trichoderma Reesei Fermentation Extract, Silicon Dioxide, Manganese Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, d-Alpha-Tocopheryl Acetate, Active Dry Yeast, Selenium Yeast, Niacin Supplement, Copper Sulftate, d-Calcium Panthothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, Pryidoxine Hydrocholoride, Biotin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Iodate, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Folic Acid and Sodium Selenite.

What even are the grains in the begging of the Purina list? Certainly doesn't sound like anything you could pick off a plant.

Heres the definition of a few-

Spoiler: Corn Distillers

Corn Distillers-
Corn distillers grain is the main by-product of the distillation of alcohol from maize grain. Distilleries produce alcoholic beverages, industrial ethanol and ethanol biofuel with the following by-products (definitions are given in Processes):

Spoiler: Dehulled Soybean meal

Conventional solvent-extracted dehulled soybean meal is produced by extracting the fat from soy flour with a solvent, and then toasting to deactivate trypsin inhibitors and lectins.

In other words, a grain that has been taken from its natural state, and processed at high heats which removes all nutrients, turning it into simply a filler, with no nutritional value.

Comparing the two labels, I do notice that Scratch and Peck also contained Sesame meal, which would also be heated, but it isn't the first ingredient, and most of the other grains are in a whole, dried form. Rather than dried, heated, and ground into meal form.
A lot of the same principles can be used to ID dog food labels. During my switch to raw, I did a lot of research on that, and I use the same info to direct chicken feed labels as well.

 

[Peter_Rabbit_Farm]

Certified organic is incredibility hard to get. I don't mean buying the food but for a company to get the certification. I don't know about animal food but for human consumption no pesticides for years on the soil before it is planted and never after so I'm not sure why they would use them on animal food. Where are you finding animal food specific information?

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-7/subtitle-B/chapter-I/subchapter-M/part-205/subpart-G

Here is a list of aproved substances in organic

 

[Peter_Rabbit_Farm]

I think its an absolute must.
Corn and soy are the top two most heavily sprayed crop in the US. They are sprayed with Roundup right before harvest, which as well know, contains Glyphosate. That means that your birds are getting a direct dose of Glyphosate in their feed, which causes cancer.
Its also sprayed with loads of other pesticides.
Non-Organic feeds I find also have lower quality grains.
This is a Purina Flock Raiser ingredient list-

Purina Flock Raiser

INGREDIENTS: Ground corn, dehulled soybean meal, corn distillers, dried grains, monocalcium phosphate, dicalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, wheat middlings, salt, magnesium sulfate, potassium sulfate, L-Lysine, DL-Methionine, Choline Chloride, Vitamin D3 supplement, tagetes extract, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, vitamin E supplement, menadione sodium bisulfate complex, calcium supplement, folic acid, pyridoxine hydrochloride, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, calcium lodate and sodium selenite. Animal fat and protein free.

Both are fairly similar in the mineral mix department, but the grains in the Scratch and Peck starter that I feed listed below are much higher quality.

Scratch and Peck Starter

Organic Wheat, Organic Peas, Organic Barley, Organic Flaxseed Meal, Fish Meal, Organic Sesame Meal, Ground Limestone, Organic Flaxseed Oil, Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Organic Dehydrated Kelp Meal, Salt, dl-Methionine, Choline Chloride, Ferrous Sulfate, Organic Wheat Flour, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Extract, Dried Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles Extract, Dried Trichoderma Reesei Fermentation Extract, Silicon Dioxide, Manganese Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, d-Alpha-Tocopheryl Acetate, Active Dry Yeast, Selenium Yeast, Niacin Supplement, Copper Sulftate, d-Calcium Panthothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, Pryidoxine Hydrocholoride, Biotin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Iodate, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Folic Acid and Sodium Selenite.

What even are the grains in the begging of the Purina list? Certainly doesn't sound like anything you could pick off a plant.

Heres the definition of a few-

Spoiler: Corn Distillers

Corn Distillers-
Corn distillers grain is the main by-product of the distillation of alcohol from maize grain. Distilleries produce alcoholic beverages, industrial ethanol and ethanol biofuel with the following by-products (definitions are given in Processes):

Spoiler: Dehulled Soybean meal

Conventional solvent-extracted dehulled soybean meal is produced by extracting the fat from soy flour with a solvent, and then toasting to deactivate trypsin inhibitors and lectins.

In other words, a grain that has been taken from its natural state, and processed at high heats which removes all nutrients, turning it into simply a filler, with no nutritional value.

Comparing the two labels, I do notice that Scratch and Peck also contained Sesame meal, which would also be heated, but it isn't the first ingredient, and most of the other grains are in a whole, dried form. Rather than dried, heated, and ground into meal form.
A lot of the same principles can be used to ID dog food labels. During my switch to raw, I did a lot of research on that, and I use the same info to direct chicken feed labels as well.

I think its an absolute must.
Corn and soy are the top two most heavily sprayed crop in the US. They are sprayed with Roundup right before harvest, which as well know, contains Glyphosate. That means that your birds are getting a direct dose of Glyphosate in their feed, which causes cancer.
Its also sprayed with loads of other pesticides.
Non-Organic feeds I find also have lower quality grains.
This is a Purina Flock Raiser ingredient list-

Purina Flock Raiser

INGREDIENTS: Ground corn, dehulled soybean meal, corn distillers, dried grains, monocalcium phosphate, dicalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, wheat middlings, salt, magnesium sulfate, potassium sulfate, L-Lysine, DL-Methionine, Choline Chloride, Vitamin D3 supplement, tagetes extract, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, vitamin E supplement, menadione sodium bisulfate complex, calcium supplement, folic acid, pyridoxine hydrochloride, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, calcium lodate and sodium selenite. Animal fat and protein free.

Both are fairly similar in the mineral mix department, but the grains in the Scratch and Peck starter that I feed listed below are much higher quality.

Scratch and Peck Starter

Organic Wheat, Organic Peas, Organic Barley, Organic Flaxseed Meal, Fish Meal, Organic Sesame Meal, Ground Limestone, Organic Flaxseed Oil, Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Organic Dehydrated Kelp Meal, Salt, dl-Methionine, Choline Chloride, Ferrous Sulfate, Organic Wheat Flour, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Extract, Dried Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles Extract, Dried Trichoderma Reesei Fermentation Extract, Silicon Dioxide, Manganese Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, d-Alpha-Tocopheryl Acetate, Active Dry Yeast, Selenium Yeast, Niacin Supplement, Copper Sulftate, d-Calcium Panthothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, Pryidoxine Hydrocholoride, Biotin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Iodate, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Folic Acid and Sodium Selenite.

What even are the grains in the begging of the Purina list? Certainly doesn't sound like anything you could pick off a plant.

Heres the definition of a few-

Spoiler: Corn Distillers

Corn Distillers-
Corn distillers grain is the main by-product of the distillation of alcohol from maize grain. Distilleries produce alcoholic beverages, industrial ethanol and ethanol biofuel with the following by-products (definitions are given in Processes):

Spoiler: Dehulled Soybean meal

Conventional solvent-extracted dehulled soybean meal is produced by extracting the fat from soy flour with a solvent, and then toasting to deactivate trypsin inhibitors and lectins.

In other words, a grain that has been taken from its natural state, and processed at high heats which removes all nutrients, turning it into simply a filler, with no nutritional value.

Comparing the two labels, I do notice that Scratch and Peck also contained Sesame meal, which would also be heated, but it isn't the first ingredient, and most of the other grains are in a whole, dried form. Rather than dried, heated, and ground into meal form.
A lot of the same principles can be used to ID dog food labels. During my switch to raw, I did a lot of research on that, and I use the same info to direct chicken feed labels as well.

I don’t buy from Purina, also I avoid corn and soy as Mutch as possible. I mostly mix my own feed with really good results. Only a small percentage of my chicken feed is from pellets. Thank you for the information. That is why I created the thread to learn more on the topic

 

[Weeg]

I don’t buy from Purina, also I avoid corn and soy as Mutch as possible. I mostly mix my own feed with really good results. Only a small percentage of my chicken feed is from pellets. Thank you for the information. That is why I created the thread to learn more on the topic

Your very welcome.
I didn't assume you fed Purina, I was just using it to compare a big brand commercial feed, (not Organic) to an Organic brand.

 

[Peter_Rabbit_Farm]

Your very welcome.
I didn't assume you fed Purina, I was just using it to compare a big brand commercial feed, (not Organic) to an Organic brand.

I find it cheaper to mix my own feed, since I buy grains in bulk, and only add pellets for extra vitamins and minerals. That’s my main concern. When I look for pellets, not the ingredients, but the nutrition label.

The mix of grains I make are split peas, oats, barley, millet, flaxseed, sunflower hearts, wheat. (Not in that order) I ferment for 3days then feed with soaked alfalfa. Also grain free dog food for animal protein/fats. The pellets I have in a hanging feeder they barely touch. Also cabbage, and other veggies as well.

 

[3KillerBs]

I consider organic a waste of money and effort. It doesn't produce a superior quality product, just a more expensive one at a greater input of labor.

Additionally, the practices that people object so much to -- especially using Roundup -- are the very practices that have enabled farmers to conserve soil and prevent erosion. You can't have no-till farming without Roundup and you can't prevent the erosion and soil-loss that was the big scare-story problem in farming when I was young without no-till farming.

They are sprayed with Roundup right before harvest,

No they don't.

My husband works at a historic site which is surrounded by a large working farm which grows corn, wheat, and soybeans specifically for the animal feed market. It's been fascinating to see efficient, modern farming close up and to learn truth through oberservation.

They absolutely do not spray anything before harvest.

First, spray of any kind would be WET and you DO NOT want anything wet before harvest because the crop has to be dried below a certain percentage of moisture before combining or it will mold in storage and the entire crop will be lost.

Second, it would be a useless waste of expensive products to put spray onto the leaves of the crop to be harvested instead of on the weeds. Farmers are lucky to make a profit at all and they're not throwing money away to no purpose.

Additionally, the weeds they need to kill don't even really sprout and take off until they are no longer heavily shaded by the standing crop -- which would make spraying a standing crop even more useless.