The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[armorfirelady]

LM-thanks to the website seems I have a red tailed hawk not a coopers hawk. Very cool website to listen to bird sounds. Maybe I can identify the other birds by their sound now to

 

[aaggjg]

Thanks for posting I am going to listen and see of I can ID my hawks. Its either a red tail or coopers hawk. Frompictures I looked at I think its a cooper.


I love the crows as well. They live in my neighbors trees and I always applaud them when they chase a hawk away. I wish they would move to my yard or at least invite their offspring to

I can tell you what I did. My infestation was not horrible. I believe I caught it before it got bad but that's only because I saw them on the roost. What I did I learned from other OTs on here.

I sprayed all the wood in the coop with neem oil. I had to use what they had at Lowe's or Home Depot. I could not find organic neem oil. I sprayed the coop first thing in the morning and wouldn't let the chickens in. It has a VERY strong odor. Read the directions on the label. At roosting time the odor was still strong (I have a hoop coop lots of ventilation but still the smell was there) I removed the roost I sprayed and put another one in its place. I am sure the odor was so strong because I basically drenched the roost in Neem oil. None of those suckers were going to live if I had my way

I then removed all bedding in the coop and nesting boxes and disposed of it in the trash. (Or you can burn it)

That evening after they roosted I dust bathed them in wood ash and put nustock on their legs and feet. I did this 3 times about every other day or so. I also gave them eggs with fresh garlic and oregano. I did this a couple times as well. I also upped their meat protein to about every 3 days instead of only once or twice a week (I read that hens that are badly infested can become anemic from mite infestations) I put fresh herbs in the nesting boxes that are natural insect repellers.

I also removed all the wood from the coop that I could. Obviously I couldn't remove the frame but I sprayed it once with neem oil. Was this a little overboard? I am sure it was BUT those mites were not going to win. Their roost now is made from tigerwood which is suppose to be insect repellent. So far so good. The kitty litter box nesting boxes now sit on a wire shelf.

I was then told to check the hens every night for 10 days after the last dusting in wood ash. Day 10 is tomorrow. So far no new mites have been found. I am going to dust them with wood ash tomorrow night at roosting time just because its me and It wont hurt them. And put some nustock on their legs again. Just to be safe.

I can tell you that after the 3rd dusting I noticed a difference in the hens. They were not scratching when they were roosting like they were before. They were all nicely settled instead of antsy and itching. I NEVER saw the mites near their vent. Not once. I saw them on their backs and under their wings.
I have multi colored birds and the mites I saw on the birds were white and the ones on the roost were red. And I saw the red mites during the day on the roost. I really thought they were tiny spiders. UGH

I know mites and lice are everywhere. But I always left a litter box for of wood ash & peat moss in their coop all year round. This summer I got lax and didn't leave it in the coop. I truly believe that's why the hens got infected. I believe when the ash was available it kept the mites at bay so when it wasn't available they infested the hens. I will never do that again!! Thank goodness I heat with wood. I will be saving ashes to last us thru the summer

I BELIEVE I HAVE WON THE WAR AGAINST MITES

Thanks for detailing your process! I cleaned my coop, whitewashed, neem oiled and put DE under the shavings in the nest boxes as I have broodies.... I used an essential oil repellant that I made from a recipe on an organic group, dabbed that on vent , ender wing & head... I used orange guard, herbs, sulfur ... I dusted my girls in the little bit of wood ash I had and DE .... I nu-stocked their vents and some of their legs (hard on the feather legged!!).... Now I just sprayed down the coop with this Vet's Best Flea & Tick stuff..... I am going to get more sulfur powder and bath them this weekend and dust with that... The girls are always scratching!! I see mites on some of them and not on others.... I have given them some supplemental liver and I put the oregano oil concoction in their water ... oh and I feed them garlic ... Like I said those mites are FIERCE here is southern California ... UGH Unfortunately, I can not check them at roost time as I get home way too late and they are down the hill in the wilderness and well I'm a chicken!!! Lice was so MUCH easier to get rid of!!! 1 bath and they were gone!!

 

[Quailsong]

That reminds me of this:

That video made my stomach turn. It was hard to watch it all the way through!

Young chicks (chickens, ducks, etc) sound very similar to squeaky toys, which were made to match prey animals calling out for help. That dog continuously licks its lips & jumps. Sure he's afraid, but he's excited - something we don't want a dog to be around poultry.

It really depends on the dog breed, personality & how it's raised. Good combinations can make a very strong & loyal dog that will see poultry as their own offspring. But even just one off combination & the dog may try to reach for that squeaky chick..

 

[armorfirelady]

Thanks for detailing your process! I cleaned my coop, whitewashed, neem oiled and put DE under the shavings in the nest boxes as I have broodies.... I used an essential oil repellant that I made from a recipe on an organic group, dabbed that on vent , ender wing & head... I used orange guard, herbs, sulfur ... I dusted my girls in the little bit of wood ash I had and DE .... I nu-stocked their vents and some of their legs (hard on the feather legged!!).... Now I just sprayed down the coop with this Vet's Best Flea & Tick stuff..... I am going to get more sulfur powder and bath them this weekend and dust with that... The girls are always scratching!! I see mites on some of them and not on others.... I have given them some supplemental liver and I put the oregano oil concoction in their water ... oh and I feed them garlic ... Like I said those mites are FIERCE here is southern California ... UGH Unfortunately, I can not check them at roost time as I get home way too late and they are down the hill in the wilderness and well I'm a chicken!!! Lice was so MUCH easier to get rid of!!! 1 bath and they were gone!!

I have 2 BCMs and I feel so bad when I put nustock on their feathered legs.......but they stick their feet in the mud and FF and it doesn't seem to bother them. I am guessing they spend a lot of time pruning those leg feathers

You could always have a bon fire or ask friends that may heat with wood (wait does anyone use heat in California? lol) to save you wood ash. That's what I did when I started. I had a big bonfire to make the ash initially. Good luck with the mite battle I hope the sulfur works

 

[RedRidge]

OK... I'm going to clarify... and possibly contradict... but bear with me...
First of all... everyone needs to understand there is a HUGE difference in an lgd and a herding dog.
I have herding dogs... competitive ones... they are NOT lgds and never could be.
Now...that said... there are such things as generic farm dogs.
For many folks a farm dog is adequate as what most people really need is simply a deterrent.
You have a dog, it's doesn't hurt your livestock, it barks at unwelcome visitors - it deters.

LGD's... let's generalize... yes some breeds "in general" like to roam.
However... many people blame their roaming on the breed when in fact the owners should be blamed... the dogs as pups were not taught to respect their fencing and/or owners refuse to have them spayed or neutered. Pyrs are known to be roamers... yet this is an unfair statement.
What pyrs really are is "perimeter guardians". However... it is very difficult for a pyr to guard a perimeter if that perimeter is not well defined and a precedence set at a young age.

Training... very little training is actually required. Trust me, I LOVE to train... I'm a competition obedience trainer.
You should have to do very little training with an lgd.
Mine learn to walk politely (not heal), just don't drag me... they know their name, "sit" (which they have to do before each meal), "off" (don't jump on me), "grrr" (equivalent of NO, don't do that, stop what you are doing), and "wait". That is ALL the commands they know other than their name.
Drop its and recalls are for obedience dogs... you do NOT want an obedience dog, you want a guardian who respects you. Obeying commands is not what earns respect. Respect is earned by having proper timing. This is VERY difficult to get people to understand and it the #1 reason so many lgd's end up in rescue.
It is rarely because it is a bad dog... almost always because it is a bad owner. Harsh, but true.

So... 90% of what allows an lgd to become a "good" lgd, is an owner that understands how an lgd thinks and has the proper timing to avoid problems.
The proper timing... as in... young enough and soon enough.
The most important thing an lgd needs to be permitted to develop is a BOND with their livestock.
Not a "I won't eat them" bond, or a "see mom, I'm not playing with them" bond... but the kind of bond where they will STAY by their side no matter what!
LGD's who roam were never properly bonded to their livestock at the right age. Oh, they love them... but they weren't allow to develop that bond.
When is that bond formed? From the second they open their eyes.
My pups have been with poultry from the time they were born... it is what they know and what they are bonded with.
They also have NO IDEA where I live... where my house is. I am simply the human that shows up every once in a while and brings food.
An lgd that leaves it's livestock EVER is not properly bonded - period!!
That's a totally different problem... and people resort to obedience because they missed the window of opportunity to bond.
I can train any dog to be obedient... any dog to not kill livestock... I can even keep any dog in with the right kind of fencing...
But I cannot make him want to stay there no matter what... worse than wanting to be dry and warm, worse than chasing a car, worse than not be willing to die to protect the livestock. IF you miss that window in time obedience will get you the "appearance" of an lgd... but when push comes to shove that appearance is nothing more than a deterrent... that dog won't give it's life for his chickens when 3 cougars show up... it'll run to your back door instead.

Too many people try to bond lgd's to livestock when they are teenagers (6-12 months old)... it "can" be done... but the strong bond that exists between those who are born into that relationship will never be there.
So... part one of timing is the breeders responsibility.
Part two, is timing on the new owners part. Most humans cannot react quick enough to correct a dog in such a way that that dog has a clue what it did wrong.
Three tenths of a second... that's how quick you must be. So... if you don't catch them in the act and communicate to them that what they are doing is wrong, then all they learn is that you get mad... they have no idea why... they just learn to stay out of your way when it happens.
It's like the dog that potties in the house... they learn NOTHING if you fuss at them "after" it happens. No, that's not true... they learn they can make you angry... they just haven't a clue how they did it so they don't know how to prevent it the next time.

My 8 week old pups are currently on a 1/2 acre with poultry. In the next few weeks one of them (and I can tell you which one

) will decide to chase one of them pullets or hens. I have a pen of cockerels just waiting for that to happen. You don't need lots of land or large livestock. You need appropriate livestock for the temperament and age. You need to remember that babies NEVER go with babies... pups with chicks is a no-no. It is simply a matter of timing... pup will chase, I will correct before any damage is done, cockerels will spend the next month reinforcing my correction. Pup will NEVER chase a chicken again... because he was "told clearly" one time that that is a no-no. Being told isn't enough... they need to understand... the timing is critical.
It doesn't take weeks or months... it takes one time.
So... who has the time? NO ONE!! Easy solution... you set them up... set em up to fail when you can assure you will have the proper timing.
That's why I have pups here still... they don't leave for another month... they will be able to go right in with their poultry, goats, sheep... whatever... and will never have to be taken out. Will they be perfect? No, they are pups... they will chew, they will corner if they can... but ask yourself this... what are their corners?

My chickens sleep on the backs of maremma... it's a trust issue... that bond works both ways.
So... timing is what is lacking for most folks... they have a full time job, they work away from home, they have no choice but to leave 7 mo old pup with poultry or lock it up. NEVER lock up an lgd... you are telling them you don't want them to do their job. You are denying them the one thing you want them to bond with. There are easy solutions to the challenges you face when the pups are teenagers... IF the foundation was laid correctly by the breeder.
If not, then you, the owner, have to get an even bigger education and learn how to counteract what should have been reinforced earlier on.

OK... enough of a lecture... Just remember that if you have a farm dog you can't expect it to be an lgd....
And if you have an lgd, you can't expect it to be a farm dog.
As long as you know what breed you are dealing with and have proper expectations, raising either is a blast and is very rewarding.
OK... sun is going down so I have maremma to feed.... 8 of them right now (one pup left already - whew)

 

[lalaland]

My new girl is out of quarantine and she is growing up really nice..



Split to chocolate black cuckoo English Orpington

she looks gorgeous!

 

[lalaland]

Natural is a word companies try to use to trick the public into thinking things are good for you! I don't think it is regulated like the word organic... they are hoping you are too stupid to read the label. I was really sad to learn that bagged soil amendments are not regulated at all ... so buying "organic" doesn't mean a thing!! SO FRUSTRATING!!!!

oh, I really hate to tell you this aaggjg, but.....the word organic doesn't mean what it used to. THe big food factory companies have had it changed. Now it can include so many things that you would assume aren't in "organic" foods. IMHO, you are better off trying to eat local, knowing your farmer/source of food, growing your own....the percentage of ingredients has really changed in the federal rules. This happened about 5-8 years ago, and they don't even have to list everything. I used to manage natural food coops, and so I am not just speculating here.

Cornicopia Institute is an interesting watchdog group on this topic.

 

[lalaland]

Dang. I thought once I had those roosters processed, things would be easy, but NO!

Poor little Mrs. Murphy was huddled under the coop tonight - I picked her up and she is so lightweight it is scary. I made a mash of cooked egg yolk, a little oatmeal, polysci vitamin drops and she ate very eagerly. It is in the low 20's tonight, so I did something I hate to do - I brought her in - both to keep the new colder temps from stressing her and so I could feed her in light. I did feed her again, including some canned cat food (yeah, I know it is terrible but she needs help so badly and it is a fast protein).

I have her in a kennel covered with a blanket. so it is dark and she can rest. I will feed her again in a few hours before bed, and keep her in the kennel tomorrow in the house while I am at work. Wed I am off work so I can figure out next steps. Hate to isolate her from the flock, if she isn't better wed I can put her in the chick brooder - it just isn't set up right now for a chicken. I'll have to add a heat lamp just to keep the water unfrozen for her as she is so small one of those big heated bowls seems too big.

I don't understand. Maybe she is being run off the feed dishes - now that the roosters are gone, and in preparation for winter, I've cut down from 5-7 feed dishes to just two. But that has just been two days. I haven't seen anyone chasing her, but...she is clearly just getting weaker. I'm realizing that she has been getting weaker for a few weeks, I just wasn't putting two and two together and was too focused on trying to figure out which rooster to keep.

you know what they say, if it isn't one thing its the other!

 

[Leahs Mom]

Speaking of fake owls...:

Cooper’s Hawk Attacks Fake Plastic Owl
(Video and quote from: http://www.birdchick.com/wp/2011/02/coopers-hawk-attacks-fake-plastic-owl/#sthash.XnSvWpyI.dpuf )

Don't watch the whole thing...it's excruciatingly long. But you get the idea pretty quick).

Here's what the site says:
Quote:

 

[aoxa]

I would keep her till she lays you some eggs..than butcher her out..she is too fat, but will give you eggs next month. She is about 1 lb too far. Your younger ones will winter well unless you feed in the barn this winter.

I just might have to pick some up..thanks


My new girl is out of quarantine and she is growing up really nice..



Split to chocolate black cuckoo English Orpington

Thanks Del!