Théo and the chickens des Sauches

[RoyalChick]

i’m not the worse chicken keeper in the world or on BYC, at least I hope so, but it makes me angry to keep making stupid mistakes that could be avoided.

Don't be silly - you aren't even in the running. We all make mistakes and I have been making the exact same mistake!

That's Pied Beau, our disco cockerel who totally acts like a cute goof ! He’s still a bit funny looking but he will definitely have an interesting colour - black with purple highlights and yellow.

I am officially in love!

please tell me more about how you manage to do that on your own. It's a nightmare for me when I’m alone to cut away the old vet wraps, and also to go for the scab with tweezers while holding a struggling chicken. I’m really scared to hurt them. And I can't let go any of the leghorns when they struggle because they are so hard to catch! First time I tried wrapping them up in a towel and tying the legs, but it was worse. Do you bring them inside, or do this out ? And do you make Bab lie down or on the side on your knees, or do you lift her foot back ?

Sorry for the long post. I am going to answer this in detail - it took me a few iterations to figure it out and I would welcome any feedback or suggestions.
I do all this out in my storage area of the Chicken Palace. I have a small strip of countertop in there which I can use for food prep or chicken weighing or whatever.
Here goes....
1. Preparation
I am a bit obsessive about this - I literally walk through everything in my head first to make sure I have everything to hand. Specifically:
- Vet wrap pre-cut into thin strips and hanging over the edge of something so it is just ready to grab
- Some clean wood 'sticks' - tongue depressors or lollipop sticks - mine are called craft sticks. These are to apply the creams so I minimize my fingers sticking in the wound. I pre-squeeze whatever ointment I think I am going to use onto the ends of the sticks, so I don't have to maneuver the tube while holding the chicken. This can lead to waste because I might decide not to use drawing salve once the wound is open - but it is only a tiny bit of waste.
- Tweezers (two types of tip) and a scalpel (which I haven't actually used)
- Some clean paper towels to wipe bits off that stick to the tweezers
- Corn cushion (to relieve the pressure off the wound)
- A clean tray (I use a plastic food container tray from the kitchen) for all the instruments and creams - basically everything listed above except the vet wrap which needs to be hanging not to get tangled up.

2. The soak
It took me a while to get something comfy and ironically I have settled on an old enameled cast iron saucepan. It has holes around the handle but can hold a few inches of water and it is perfectly Bab-sized.
I learned to put a wash cloth in the bottom as it seems more comfortable for her
I tend to wrap her in a towel for this - mainly for my comfort because I try to soak for 15-20 mins and standing still holding her wings - this way I can pull up a stool and hold on to the towel.
I use my other hand to rub her ear lobes and wattles and she seems to love it. She extends her neck and closes her eyes and makes little cooing sounds. And I will be honest, my heart melts.
I really want to take a video of that because it is so adorable, but I don't really have any hands to spare!
The problem with this is that she settles down into her saucepan and naps so she gets her tummy all wet.

3. The hold
After I take her out of the saucepan I tend to wrap her in a new towel. That is as much to help dry her underside and keep me dry as it is to control her and I have at times done it without re-wrapping her (I got soaked by hugging a sopping wet chicken).
I am right handed and I tuck her under my left arm. They call it the football hold - but maybe the rugby hold is more applicable outside the US! Her head is facing to my back and her butt end is in front. from that position I can move her legs back and support the foot with my left hand and do all the squeezing/massaging using my right hand.
I can even use the fingers of my left hand because I can support her foot with the palm of my hand. This comes in useful mainly when I am bandaging and want to hold the corn cushion in place until I get the vet wrap over it.
I have seen videos where people put the chicken on their side, or upside down, and neither look very comfortable for the chicken. And honestly I think I get better visualization of the sole of her foot using my method than they do and Babs may not like being confined, but at least she isn't upside down.

Finally, Babs is not tame so I do this all after dark using the red light of my headlamp. I wouldn’t be able to catch her during the day.

I hope that was clear and maybe a little bit helpful and not just boring.

Here is the lovely lady sporting her blue bandage.

 

[Perris]

I've not had to do this (yet) but when I do, your post is where I shall come for guidance @RoyalChick . Thank you for the clarity and the detail.

 

[RoyalChick]

I've not had to do this (yet) but when I do, your post is where I shall come for guidance @RoyalChick . Thank you for the clarity and the detail.

Glad it was helpful. Two other details I forgot and will edit in so it is all in one place;
- good to have some clean paper towel to wipe the tweezers while you work
- also good to put a washcloth in the bottom of the soaking bowl to make a better surface for the chicken to stand on. Babs seems to find the surface better and doesn’t curl her toes up while soaking

Oh - and I do it at night as Babs is not tame.

 

[ManueB]

Glad it was helpful. Two other details I forgot and will edit in so it is all in one place;
- good to have some clean paper towel to wipe the tweezers while you work
- also good to put a washcloth in the bottom of the soaking bowl to make a better surface for the chicken to stand on. Babs seems to find the surface better and doesn’t curl her toes up while soaking

Oh - and I do it at night as Babs is not tame.

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain all this. Yes, it's very helpful, and I see how I could improve some of the things I’ve been doing. Very interesting that your vet told you to stop removing the scab and massaging instead. I will certainly do that when i’m alone !

I’ve been tending to them in a rather similar way, but with a few differences.

I do it outside, mostly because the environment is familiar to them ; and if I took them inside, which I will have to do tomorrow as it's raining, our bathroom is too small to have everything layed out comfortably, so they will have to be in our main living room. Another problem is that they regularly poop in the bath, and it's easier to throw the water out and rinse the basin out than inside.

I think doing it at night is a great idea mainly because then Babs get hours of not moving around and keeping her foot clean. Mine instantly go put their feet in dirt and mud and poop. Unfortunately it wouldn't work for us as we go to bed very soon after the chickens, and we have to tend to two or three a day. I could eventually do it just for Nieva whose feet are far worse than the others.

I use a basin, and indeed they seem to struggle with the bottom being too slippery. It's a great idea to use a washcloth at the bottom. Unfortunately since we have four chickens with bumblefoot I don't have enough of them. I might try cutting up an old big towel into pieces.
I do the exact opposite of hanging the wrap strips ! I carefully spread them on a wood cutting board with a ruler on both sides of the strips to keep them from sliding. I tried hanging them or rolling them around a roll and I ended up getting them stuck to one another.

I use my hands to spread the betadine and the sulfapyridine, so I bring a tiny cup of 90° alcohol to rinse my fingers everytime I need. It's mainly because I get clumsy with my hands and it feels easier, so I can then concentrate on wrapping the bandages properly.

I found the position depends on the chicken. Like you, I really find the football hold more secure as it's the only way you can use more than one hand. But only one of the chicken, Nougat, will relax in it. The leghorns prefer being put on the side, which is not great because since I need to do both feet for them, I have to turn them around in between, and also it's very tricky to use the tweezers in that position since I dont see as well what I’m doing. And Cannelle hates all those positions. We need to force her into one and hold her by strength. She doesn't have pus luckily because I couldn't manage to pull at her scab when i’m on my own.
I think I will try again like you do, wrapping them with a towel. I only tried with Alba and it was such a fail that I didn't try with the others. Maybe they wouldn't be so afraid.

As for catching the chicken...with Nieva, it's very difficult. My partner has enormous hands, so he manages to hand out treats with one hand and very quickly grab her if she comes near with the other ! I can't do that and basically I have to cook something for them that takes a lot of time to eat so that she has time to decide she is sufficiently motivated to eat to risk being caught .

Anyway thank you again for taking the time to write such a detailed post, and I hope Babs will get better soon.

 

[RoyalChick]

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain all this. Yes, it's very helpful, and I see how I could improve some of the things I’ve been doing. Very interesting that your vet told you to stop removing the scab and massaging instead. I will certainly do that when i’m alone !

I’ve been tending to them in a rather similar way, but with a few differences.

I do it outside, mostly because the environment is familiar to them ; and if I took them inside, which I will have to do tomorrow as it's raining, our bathroom is too small to have everything layed out comfortably, so they will have to be in our main living room. Another problem is that they regularly poop in the bath, and it's easier to throw the water out and rinse the basin out than inside.

I think doing it at night is a great idea mainly because then Babs get hours of not moving around and keeping her foot clean. Mine instantly go put their feet in dirt and mud and poop. Unfortunately it wouldn't work for us as we go to bed very soon after the chickens, and we have to tend to two or three a day. I could eventually do it just for Nieva whose feet are far worse than the others.

I use a basin, and indeed they seem to struggle with the bottom being too slippery. It's a great idea to use a washcloth at the bottom. Unfortunately since we have four chickens with bumblefoot I don't have enough of them. I might try cutting up an old big towel into pieces.
I do the exact opposite of hanging the wrap strips ! I carefully spread them on a wood cutting board with a ruler on both sides of the strips to keep them from sliding. I tried hanging them or rolling them around a roll and I ended up getting them stuck to one another.

I use my hands to spread the betadine and the sulfapyridine, so I bring a tiny cup of 90° alcohol to rinse my fingers everytime I need. It's mainly because I get clumsy with my hands and it feels easier, so I can then concentrate on wrapping the bandages properly.

I found the position depends on the chicken. Like you, I really find the football hold more secure as it's the only way you can use more than one hand. But only one of the chicken, Nougat, will relax in it. The leghorns prefer being put on the side, which is not great because since I need to do both feet for them, I have to turn them around in between, and also it's very tricky to use the tweezers in that position since I dont see as well what I’m doing. And Cannelle hates all those positions. We need to force her into one and hold her by strength. She doesn't have pus luckily because I couldn't manage to pull at her scab when i’m on my own.
I think I will try again like you do, wrapping them with a towel. I only tried with Alba and it was such a fail that I didn't try with the others. Maybe they wouldn't be so afraid.

As for catching the chicken...with Nieva, it's very difficult. My partner has enormous hands, so he manages to hand out treats with one hand and very quickly grab her if she comes near with the other ! I can't do that and basically I have to cook something for them that takes a lot of time to eat so that she has time to decide she is sufficiently motivated to eat to risk being caught .

Anyway thank you again for taking the time to write such a detailed post, and I hope Babs will get better soon.

Thank you - yes I do hope so.
Just to clarify - I am doing this inside the Chicken Palace - in my area where I store their 'stuff'. So I am inches away from where the Pentagonists are roosting - so they often respond to Babs' little chirps with chirps of their own.
And I do it at night because I don't have a hope in hell of catching Babs during the day - I have to creep in at night and take her off the roost. I also suspect she is calmer because with her head behind me and my headlight in front of me she is more-or-less in the dark so cannot see much through the whole process.
The vet told me to stop digging because there is healthy flesh. I think there is still pus, but the vet thought that we would do more harm by digging in to healthy tissue and the soaking and massaging will hopefully be enough to mobilize her own systems to deal with the remaining pus.
This is after I have removed some pus already - but I was beginning to only get bleeding and when I looked I thought there was healthy tissue and the vet agreed.

 

[ManueB]

Thank you - yes I do hope so.
Just to clarify - I am doing this inside the Chicken Palace - in my area where I store their 'stuff'. So I am inches away from where the Pentagonists are roosting - so they often respond to Babs' little chirps with chirps of their own.
And I do it at night because I don't have a hope in hell of catching Babs during the day - I have to creep in at night and take her off the roost. I also suspect she is calmer because with her head behind me and my headlight in front of me she is more-or-less in the dark so cannot see much through the whole process.
The vet told me to stop digging because there is healthy flesh. I think there is still pus, but the vet thought that we would do more harm by digging in to healthy tissue and the soaking and massaging will hopefully be enough to mobilize her own systems to deal with the remaining pus.
This is after I have removed some pus already - but I was beginning to only get bleeding and when I looked I thought there was healthy tissue and the vet agreed.

Ok, so we’re definitely not there with Nieva. It keeps accumulating on one side, so I guess we have to keep opening. I hope the antibiotics will help her, because everytime it seems like I leave a very clean hole, and everytime it fills up again worse than it was.

I’m also really not sure I will be able to catch her next time, she knows very well what we are up to now. You’d think she would limp with a foot inflamed like this, but no.
The leghorn’s feet look and feel different from that of the other hens. I read somewhere they are prone to bumblefeet and that really doesn't surprise me. It's like they have no cushioning.

 

[RoyalChick]

Ok, so we’re definitely not there with Nieva. It keeps accumulating on one side, so I guess we have to keep opening. I hope the antibiotics will help her, because everytime it seems like I leave a very clean hole, and everytime it fills up again worse than it was.

I’m also really not sure I will be able to catch her next time, she knows very well what we are up to now. You’d think she would limp with a foot inflamed like this, but no.
The leghorn’s feet look and feel different from that of the other hens. I read somewhere they are prone to bumblefeet and that really doesn't surprise me. It's like they have no cushioning.

I will report in what I find tonight - but the reason I was worried about Babs and took her to the vet is that there kept being more pus at the edge but healthy flesh in the middle and skin kept growing over the pus (very rapidly I must say!).
So I am worried that the skin will seal off the pus.
I am still worried about that but there isn't any obvious place to cut or tweeze without going through healthy skin.
She bleeds quite a lot and the vet thought that was an encouraging sign.
I do hope you can help Nieva - I don't know if you are using corn cushions but I think that has helped a lot with the discomfort for Babs.

 

[GregnLety]

@ManueB I would probably eat our male turkeys but they are Lety's pets. No offense in asking

 

[BDutch]

I’m waiting hopefully for the forecasted afternoon storm, temperatures are back to normal,

We just had an hour of heavy rain, lightning and thunder with some hail too.
Temps dropped to need a wear a sweater socks and long trousers. No summer vibes anymore here. Feels like september came too soon.

I discovered a few white lice on Katrientje too yesterday. Not on the other chickens. Realising all chickens dust bath daily, except Katrientje ,it seems she doesn’t like to bath. So I put a handful of DE in between her feathers last evening. Want to do this again next week and see if there are still feather lice (?) on her after that. I didn’t see any nest these feather lice normally seem to make. Do Im not sure what these are. Only know it are not red mite for sure.

 

[BDutch]

Sorry for the long post. I am going to answer this in detail - it took me a few iterations to figure it out and I would welcome any feedback or suggestions.

Sorry, I skipped this. Don’t have such problematic issues like bumble foot.
I hope you and ManueB succeed.

If I want to inspect or treat one of my chickens I do this after dark. So much easier if the are sleepy.

And yes. IMHO Manue only made a mistake taking over problematic chickens from her neighbour.
I made lots of mistakes too the first year I started with chickens and do from time to time ever since. It’s good to realise we ALL make mistakes with living creatures. I even made mistakes bringing up my children. Everyone does. Only most people don’t like to tell about the mistakes they have made. It feels better for most humans to put on pink glasses , share the successes, and avoid telling about the misery. Don’t you think?

My motto of today; “Some nasty things that happen just can’t be avoided unless an Angel comes un time to warn us. “
Sometimes I even got into more trouble because I was listening to an Angel in disguise (the type that says she/he knows better.

PS changed some typo,s and awful grammar.