Speckledhen's Ten Commandments of Good Flock Management

[ValarieF]

Hey You dont know me, and dont put all vets under that catagory. I know one off the top of my head and can contact that can tell me whet I need to know. I have worked with animals all my life especially birds ans was trained by east valley wild life and GAme and Fish to andminister iv's shots and stitches. So before you go off on a rant yyou better know thw person your referring to. Im done with this subject and yes I have euthanized birds before because it was necessary and they were suffering.

 

[speckledhen]

You really missed my posts above the one you got your panties in a wad about, unfortunately, where I said I did not intend to come off as being harsh, but I've had this same challenge literally hundreds of times. I've been here 17 years on this platform even before it was revamped by Mr. Ludlow and this thread has been going for 13 of those years. I am not ranting. I am explaining and I did not put "all" vets under any category. You're intentionally being obtuse. This all began when you posted on my thread and lambasted me for my suggestion to euthanize a chicken with a respiratory illness. If you don't want an answer, maybe next time just say you refuse any dialogue.

 

[getaclue]

Hey You dont know me, and dont put all vets under that catagory. I know one off the top of my head and can contact that can tell me whet I need to know. I have worked with animals all my life especially birds ans was trained by east valley wild life and GAme and Fish to andminister iv's shots and stitches. So before you go off on a rant yyou better know thw person your referring to. Im done with this subject and yes I have euthanized birds before because it was necessary and they were suffering.

You are correct that we don't know you, but that's not really as important as your knowledge, attitudes, and point of view on the subject of respiratory illnesses in chickens. This we do know, due to what you've posted.

Mostly all of the worst-case-scenario CHICKEN illnesses, list respiratory difficulties as a symptom, but then with your extensive training, you are aware of that. As to having euthanized birds before, then you should have no difficulty about having to do it if/when the symptoms and/or pathology dictates.

The advice is sound, whether you agree, or disagree. The advice is sound, whether it's unpleasant, or not. As to what each flock owner chooses to do, that's up to them. No one has said otherwise.

 

[speckledhen]

Thanks, Cheryl. Your last statement is exactly right. I did say in the very first post that this is how we manage our flocks, how we have never experienced contagious disease here and how we regularly have very long-lived chickens. Take the advice or don't, up to each person. The title was just a catchy play on words, not actually "you MUST do this".

I want to reiterate #8 that seems to get so many people all in a dither. Let's recap:
8) At the first sign of contagious respiratory illness, i.e., discharges from nose or eyes or bad smell, cull, cull, cull...birds don't get colds, per se; they contract diseases, many of which make them carriers for their lifetime. That means they are able to infect others even if they seem to recover themselves. See Rule #7.

NOTE: I said "contagious" respiratory illness. Contagious. Contagious. CONTAGIOUS!

You must determine if it is a contagion you are dealing with. I was just accused of killing any bird that looked funny. I'm over that, folks. READ, please, and stop putting words in my mouth or lambasting me for things I never said. Don't pick out something and misconstrue it just to fight about it. C'mon, now. The last person said she did not agree with #8, then proceeded to say she put a supposedly cured bird back in the flock and nothing happened. Well, okay, so she got lucky because she had no idea if what she just treated was contagious. But her protest said she did not agree with culling contagious birds because that is what #8 is all about in the first place. If you do not agree with #8, then what you're saying is that you are willing to risk contaminating the entire flock so you don't have to euthanize one chicken. If that is your stance, YOU DO YOU. I never said anything to the contrary. I think it's completely irresponsible, but this list was only a SUMMARY of my management philosophy that has worked now for over 17 years. That is all. Don't come after me with pitchforks because you're uncomfortable with it. Let's now move on, please.

 

[ChesterT1960]

Thanks for the very good advice for this newbie, very helpful.

 

[Dhkoenig]

Chickens may be livestock or they may be pets, but they deserve and desire attention and care. If you are going to maintain a healthy backyard flock, there are certain rules that should be followed. For those of you who frequently PM me for advice, or for those of you who are new to chicken-keeping, here is the "Speckledhen Method" in a nutshell.

Speckledhen's Ten Commandments of Good Flock Management

1) Keep a clean, dry environment...change bedding as needed, watch out for leaky waterers/windows/roofs, etc.

2) Fresh air/ventilation is essential..poop and respiration add moisture in the air. Ventilation overhead, not at roost or floor level.

3) Provide fresh water, daily. Would you take a sip out of the waterer? If not, clean it.

4) Give fresh, nutritious food, formulated for the age/function of the birds

5) Provide a safe, predator-proofed, uncrowded coop and run...they depend on you for protection

6) Periodically, check over each bird in the flock for lice, mites, wounds, etc.

7) Practice good biosecurity..disinfect shoes before and after visting the feedstore and shows, quarantine new birds, etc Under no circumstances, sell, trade, or give away a bird that shows sign of infection or has contacted another bird who shows signs of infection, or comes from a flock that has shown signs of infection, now or in the past.

8) At the first sign of contagious respiratory illness, i.e., discharges from nose or eyes or bad smell, cull, cull, cull...birds don't get colds, per se; they contract diseases, many of which make them carriers for their lifetime. That means they are able to infect others even if they seem to recover themselves. See Rule #7.

9) Do not medicate unnecessarily, including wormers and antibiotics

10) DO YOUR RESEARCH! There are numerous books and articles profiling poultry management and poultry disease. Read, study and then formulate a plan of action, should the worst happen, before it happens.


Happy Chicken-Keeping!

Great article. The one question I have is - if you have had the same flock together for years and one gets a respiratory infection, why wouldn't you just get a vet to look him/her over and help her? That is what we did a year ago - I took Butternut to the vet asap once I noticed her puffed up and off to herself. By the time we got to the vet she was panting . They kept her in oxygen and then we gave her antibiotics and separated her into my mudroom. Once she was over it we put her back in and everyone was A-Ok. So just not sure I get the cull cull cull thing if you don't first take her to the vet and see if you can save her. I am guessing the reason only she got sick was maybe she inhaled some dirt/dust and it had some bacteria or something in it, so it got into her respiratory system but not the others. I would love some further explanation of the cull cull cull thing if one gets sick.

 

[Dhkoenig]

Great article. The one question I have is - if you have had the same flock together for years and one gets a respiratory infection, why wouldn't you just get a vet to look him/her over and help her? That is what we did a year ago - I took Butternut to the vet asap once I noticed her puffed up and off to herself. By the time we got to the vet she was panting . They kept her in oxygen and then we gave her antibiotics and separated her into my mudroom. Once she was over it we put her back in and everyone was A-Ok. So just not sure I get the cull cull cull thing if you don't first take her to the vet and see if you can save her. I am guessing the reason only she got sick was maybe she inhaled some dirt/dust and it had some bacteria or something in it, so it got into her respiratory system but not the others. I would love some further explanation of the cull cull cull thing if one gets sick.

Never mind LOL. Just read up and I see the "contageous" part I missed. I guess you never really know but mine never had discharge or a bad smell. Sorry I read too quickly

 

[speckledhen]

Great article. The one question I have is - if you have had the same flock together for years and one gets a respiratory infection, why wouldn't you just get a vet to look him/her over and help her? That is what we did a year ago - I took Butternut to the vet asap once I noticed her puffed up and off to herself. By the time we got to the vet she was panting . They kept her in oxygen and then we gave her antibiotics and separated her into my mudroom. Once she was over it we put her back in and everyone was A-Ok. So just not sure I get the cull cull cull thing if you don't first take her to the vet and see if you can save her. I am guessing the reason only she got sick was maybe she inhaled some dirt/dust and it had some bacteria or something in it, so it got into her respiratory system but not the others. I would love some further explanation of the cull cull cull thing if one gets sick.

First, not all vets treat chickens. Second, some will treat them without knowing enough or even caring about the carrier status of these bird and take your money even if they have no idea what they're doing. I won't take a chicken to a vet because I don't trust them, except for a select few that know chickens and have them, and I don't want to be on the radar of the government (yeah, that's a whole other issue for another thread). What tests did the vet do to determine what was wrong? Or did he do any testing at all?
We learn to diagnose our own birds by process of elimination-did you bring other birds into the flock? Did you track something in on your shoes from the feed store? Did wild birds set up housekeeping in your barn and infect your flock? Did the bird become soaked in a rain storm and possibly contract pneumonia? You have to figure out how it happened and if you believe it may be contagious, eliminate that bird from the flock or risk the rest of them. It's not a question of saving a bird, but of saving the rest of the flock from that contagion.
If you choose to treat, you may be setting up a cycle of disease in the flock that is not easily managed. Treating symptoms does not necessarily mean the bird is "cured". If you can reasonably determine that this animal has a non-contagious infection, that is all well and good, however, most owners just treat symptoms blindly without ever trying to determine what the cause is...and so do vets. If you don't know, that is why the cull. Most chicken respiratory diseases are like herpes or HIV. They stay in the bird for the rest of its like, leaving it a carrier. It can infect others for the rest of its life and have relapses when under stress. It's not worth the chance, especially if you have a larger number of chickens or if you regularly sell eggs and/or chicks. If you willingly allow birds to stay in the flock, ones you really don't know if they survived one of those carrier diseases or not, you can no longer ethically sell eggs or chicks or adult birds to anyone. You risk passing on that to someone else's flock. That is why the "separate immediately, observe, assess and then cull if contagious". I hope this explains it better.

 

[Henpecked Dad]

Chickens may be livestock or they may be pets, but they deserve and desire attention and care. If you are going to maintain a healthy backyard flock, there are certain rules that should be followed. For those of you who frequently PM me for advice, or for those of you who are new to chicken-keeping, here is the "Speckledhen Method" in a nutshell.

Speckledhen's Ten Commandments of Good Flock Management

1) Keep a clean, dry environment...change bedding as needed, watch out for leaky waterers/windows/roofs, etc.

2) Fresh air/ventilation is essential..poop and respiration add moisture in the air. Ventilation overhead, not at roost or floor level.

3) Provide fresh water, daily. Would you take a sip out of the waterer? If not, clean it.

4) Give fresh, nutritious food, formulated for the age/function of the birds

5) Provide a safe, predator-proofed, uncrowded coop and run...they depend on you for protection

6) Periodically, check over each bird in the flock for lice, mites, wounds, etc.

7) Practice good biosecurity..disinfect shoes before and after visting the feedstore and shows, quarantine new birds, etc Under no circumstances, sell, trade, or give away a bird that shows sign of infection or has contacted another bird who shows signs of infection, or comes from a flock that has shown signs of infection, now or in the past.

8) At the first sign of contagious respiratory illness, i.e., discharges from nose or eyes or bad smell, cull, cull, cull...birds don't get colds, per se; they contract diseases, many of which make them carriers for their lifetime. That means they are able to infect others even if they seem to recover themselves. See Rule #7.

9) Do not medicate unnecessarily, including wormers and antibiotics

10) DO YOUR RESEARCH! There are numerous books and articles profiling poultry management and poultry disease. Read, study and then formulate a plan of action, should the worst happen, before it happens.


Happy Chicken-Keeping!

For those of us who couldn't cull chickens if a gun was pointed to their head, is there a place where you actually can take them and that they take care of that?

 

[speckledhen]

For those of us who couldn't cull chickens if a gun was pointed to their head, is there a place where you actually can take them and that they take care of that?

I wish there was, I really do. I wish they'd trust us with the euthanasia drug they use for dogs, but they won't. You can take them to a vet, but many, maybe most, use the heart stick method, which I can't allow. I have just as much trouble as anyone with that task, my husband more so. It is simply one of the unpleasant tasks of chicken keeping. As far as disease, you can do a lot to keep that out of your flock, but there are other reasons it may become necessary to put down a chicken. I've encountered a few, mostly neurological. It frankly sucks.