Rant/vent about Dutch Indian runner duck market..

[Loopeend]

I need to rant/vent.

We don't have tractor supplies or anything; it's illegal to sell animals in stores (exception for mouses/hamsters/rats in specialized animal stores because they are also food for other animals). Some specialized reptile stores can sell reptiles... aquarium-stores to sell fish, it's all just really hard to sell animals and get licenses. This has been issued to prevent animal-abuse that happend a lot on big-scale before all these rules. Sweating-mangy puppy's in windows while gazillion fahrenheit and full sun, etc. etc. etc.

This had lead to a lot of animals going underground. Cats, dogs, rats, fowl, horses; you have to get them from breeders through something like craigs-list; but there is not a clear license of being a breeder; so bad breeders just keep frolicking on over there.

On our 'graig-list' you can pay to be on top. The Indian runner market is small. 3 breeders keep selling their ducks the whole year around, paying, and being the first one shown. I don't trust none of these three because it seems like they are just doing it for money. From one we bought '100% pure runners' only 2 from 6 were. One breeds crested. The most active smelled fishy too. I couldn't explain exactly why.
I suddenly got a bit weary when I got my breeders-license and after mentioning that; they stopped responding while they before that, they allways responded quick. Or responded with 'sorry all the ducks are sold'. To try out that I am not going insane my partner send them a message after without anything about being a breeder; suddenly instant reply and the ducks were magically still there.

I started confronting one of them; saying I don't think it is okay to sell '100% pure bred' Indian runner ducks while last year only 2 out of the 6 were, 4 clearly were at least half wild duck. At the same time one of the others replied back about a question I asked two months ago 'Do you expect to have blue ducklings this year with unrelated parents?'. And it all got more baffling that I can't seem to share somewhere; I hope here I can.

Person one I confronted about his ducks not being 100% Indian runner ducks;
He keeps them in a river that is not his; just a government river close to his house. He said it was not possible that his duck were not 100% pure. I said; can you be sure, the way you keep your ducks, that no wild ducks got a go on them? His answer;
Yes, are you really so stupid to think wild ducks can even mate with Indian runners? They hold the head down while mating, no wild duck will be able to reach the cloaca that way because Indian runners are taller. Me: Yes? They can and they do??? Do you even know what a penis of a male duck looks like? They don't nééd to push the head down to be able in order to mate; they want their penis in the cloaca. (a lot of ????? whut??? still going on in my head, and weird stuff like 'a 2 meter tall woman can have a baby with a 1.40 male without kissing? idk. I'm just baffled that after his '10 years experience with no complaints ever' he does not know/claims wild duck can't breed with Indian runner ducks??).

The other person that replied after months;
'Sorry for the late reply. Can you send a picture of what colour you are looking for? what is blue? (for real...=/) and haha no they are all family because they are free roaming and we don't sepperate them hahaha. (=/ As in... you are too lazy.. because money...).

I think the best way to go with this; it to set an better example. I am doing that now. But I would still love to vent/rant to someone who can understand these frustrations. I think as an X year-long Indian runner breeder you should atleast know something about how mating works, how colours are called, and how to prevent inbreeding.. they are so in it for money not regarding the duck. I have a hard time to vent because I don't have many duck-people in my life that know what 'blue' is, and why I am so baffled.

Thanks.

 

[Bridger Davis]

WOW this was riveting!! You remind me of myself with the ranting I'm so sorry for your frustration! I REALLY wish I could just give you some ducks rn

 

[Loopeend]

WOW this was riveting!! You remind me of myself with the ranting I'm so sorry for your frustration! I REALLY wish I could just give you some ducks rn

I will come and get them if you have 100% pure breed not-inbred blue ones :') Unbibbed.

Gaah I hate these people just making money of them. They all describe them as pure-bred (offcourse) and brown, black, grey and white or 'cow' (our cows are white with black/brown spots). All the brown shades; trout, dusky, etc. etc. is just BROWN. Urgh. Even when they would get a hold of the rare (over here) 'fawn and white' they will just call it 'brown cow-like-duck'. And offcourse manage to breed it ALL out directly. Sigh.

 

[cheezenkwackers]

So sorry, but I always find your posts fascinating!

 

[Loopeend]

So sorry, but I always find your posts fascinating!

Thanks. I find U.S.A. duck-breeding interesting. I guess because it is so miles apart from how stuff is going on around here. And neither are perfect unfortunately. U.S.A. people tell me that bins-of-ducks at tractor-markets are not the best of best. And that is not cool. But making it illegal for those stores, like over here, didn't make things better; just worse.
At least stores just say (I guess/imagine, due to lawsuites) 'bin of asorted ducks'. And not '100% pure bread Indian runners!'. You know what you get, take them home, and see how they turn out. You knów they probably not all will be pure-bred. You are not mislead.

This country; is so far away from nature; that every doofus that does not know anything about raising animals, ducks, dogs, cats, chicken etc. but just think 'they look cute' are easily targeted and persuaded by people that want to make a buck and just tell them lies like; 'pure bred indian runners 100%!'.

Those three adjusted their adds now since last year. They got knowledge of that it is not okay to keep a duck alone. Or it can be bad for your business reputation to sell them alone. So they now added; 'It is sad for a duck so we don't sell them alone; only per two!'. How handy for them! It doubles their income! But is it okay to sell a brother and sister? Since they are brother and sister...and one female is too little for one drake? =/

 

[AnotherKim]

Can you buy from other European countries? Does the Netherlands allow animal shipping from other countries? Maybe you could get some good ones from England or France and then start your own breeding program.

 

[Loopeend]

Can you buy from other European countries? Does the Netherlands allow animal shipping from other countries? Maybe you could get some good ones from England or France and then start your own breeding program.

I actually do and did!

This rant is not because I can't get no duck(isfaction). Just that I dislike these money-breeders. We call them bread-breeders. Just in it for the money; no regard to the animals; justing making money from them to put bread on the table (well more then bread; just to get an flatscreen or vacation); using less-informed people. It is a bit scammy to use people.

In all EU-countries you can freely travel with Ducks. Except the UK because it is an island. I can travel ducks from the UK to the Netherlands freely; but not the other way around without a vaccine-ID; because our non-Island ducks can bring diseases. When Brexit might happen; it will be closed at all; it will be 6 months in incubating (not the right word; 3 months here and 3 months there in 'jail' to rule out diseases). So I'm trying to do a trade with UK breeders now we still can

I'm sure these people are everywhere. Exploiting people. Pretending they have knowledge, people trust you, and sell them air. We all know them, maybe they sell cars or whatever. They might have puppy-farms. The Indian runner duck market over here is só small that you can clearly see them. And it annoy's me.

I am doing the oppisite and give an good example. I hope it will steal some people away from them and towards better breeders. But in the meantime they are still there and I need to vent

 

[WannaBeHillBilly]

My friend @Loopeend! - Don't be so frustrated and don't be jealous and think the situation with animals here in the U.S. of A. is so much better.
When we lived in Houston, one of the neighbors was running what is called a "puppy mill" out of his garage. Dogs in cages, mating and giving birth permanently and being treated like things. Those dogs never saw daylight or got fresh air, except for the few moments when their owner was backing his truck up in the driveway, unloading bags and bags of dog food. The smell during the summertime was unbearable - Houston: Hotter than 40°C and 100% humidity, no AC in the garage. The permanent yipping and yapping of the dogs and doglings did not let us sleep. I finally called the Houston SPCA, animal cruelty is a crime in Texas (!) and they told me as long as the dogs have food and water and are protected against the elements it is not cruel and they can't do a thing…

In the end i got elected into the board of the Home-Owners Association and one of my first actions was to contact the house's owner. Turned out the neighbor had only rented the house, he was evicted, took his puppy-mill equipment to the next rented house and continued…
There is not much we can do about this!
Except as you wrote: Be a good example and make things better! Spread the word and the knowledge to other to turn them into good animal parents. The web-site you are building (https://loopeenden.nl/) is an excellent step into the right direction.
As for the duck breeds here: Most hatcheries sell ducklings that are far away from being show-standard. As @Magnolia Ducks about our »Magpie« ducks. Yes they quack, are black and white with black bills and black and yellow feet - but! Two out of five here are crested. I never wanted crested ducks, i consider a crest a birth defect! My Magpies are 90% black while they should be between 40-60% black. Also they have blue wing-tips. Definitely not a "clean" Magpie duck. Similar with the "Buff Orpingtons" - they have developed lavender wing-tips.
I consider my Fawn and White Runners an exception, bought them as "ducklings" and they turned out to be really beautiful.
Don't get me wrong, i do love all of my ducks!!! - But i am not planning to raise their offspring. I love to have a mixed flock and if an occasional duckling "occurs" that's fine.
Maybe when i am retired and have enough time i focus on one or two breeds, the Dutch Hookbill is on top of my list.

 

[AnotherKim]

Oh. I see. I understand your frustration.

I actually do and did!

This rant is not because I can't get no duck(isfaction). Just that I dislike these money-breeders. We call them bread-breeders. Just in it for the money; no regard to the animals; justing making money from them to put bread on the table (well more then bread; just to get an flatscreen or vacation); using less-informed people. It is a bit scammy to use people.

In all EU-countries you can freely travel with Ducks. Except the UK because it is an island. I can travel ducks from the UK to the Netherlands freely; but not the other way around without a vaccine-ID; because our non-Island ducks can bring diseases. When Brexit might happen; it will be closed at all; it will be 6 months in incubating (not the right word; 3 months here and 3 months there in 'jail' to rule out diseases). So I'm trying to do a trade with UK breeders now we still can

I'm sure these people are everywhere. Exploiting people. Pretending they have knowledge, people trust you, and sell them air. We all know them, maybe they sell cars or whatever. They might have puppy-farms. The Indian runner duck market over here is só small that you can clearly see them. And it annoy's me.

I am doing the oppisite and give an good example. I hope it will steal some people away from them and towards better breeders. But in the meantime they are still there and I need to vent

 

[Magnolia Ducks]

@Loopeend , the English word you are searching for is quarantine. Ideal is not a duck mill. I have been there and from what I saw everything is very clean and humane. But they do not focus on birds for pets but most of the birds are for farm use. So not carefully bred as you do. In addition to what @WannaBeHillBilly said about the magpies, my Black Swedish has no bib. But all my ducks appear healthy and happy and I did not intend to show. I appreciate people that keep breed standards. I am happy they do and I would love some hookbills. But I am also happy with my "mutt" ducks. They will lay delicious eggs.