Ramblings of a newbie starting a self-sustaining meat bird flock…

[HenriettaPizzaNolan]

Curious if anyone has troubles with these Delaware


Found this on FB
Update on McMurray "Enhanced" Delaware Broilers. We processed 4 hens today at 11 months old. We raised these birds last year in hopes of a sustainable flock. They grew fast, were super easy to raise, clean, and docile. Great meat quality, and very tasty. McMurray says these birds will breed and can be raised as a sustainable flock. I'm here to tell you all, that is not the case. We kept these 4 hens back just to see how they did long term. They continued to grow, more like a meat bird than a Delaware. They were extremely fat and started showing signs of health issues recently, like poor egg quality. What I found inside was SHOCKING.

They amount of fat in their abdomen, around their intestines and their hearts was intense. All 4 had advanced fatty liver disease. The largest one had an entire lobe of her liver that was necrotic - a chunk had literally broken off and was just free in her abdomen. It was the texture of cooked liver. Another one had three to four crushed eggs in her abdomen. Not in an oviduct, just crushed, decomposing eggs in her abdomen. Several of her developping yolks were runny and off colored.

I am SO glad I processed them today. None of them were showing overt symptoms of serious disease, but these girls would have been dead with the first heat wave, if not sooner. They'd never even been through a molt. These are not birds that can survive long term. They make good meat birds but that's it.

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Wow, that looks awful. I hope they also did a review on the McMurray site so they know and can try to do some better breeding or something. I was excited about these Delawares because they've gotten such good reviews. I wonder if this is a fluke or if it's common. Either way, I'm glad I saw this because it's something to consider when I choose my dual purpose flock one day.

 

[imacowgirl2]

For those wondering how these hens are laying…my husband thinks I’m crazy that I have not one, but THREE of my cameras on their nest — but I have been able to confirm that one of them has laid 4 eggs in the past 12 days (with two of those being double-yolked eggs) and the other one has laid 8. So if we assume that crazy double-yolk hen wasn’t messed up and laying so many double yolks, it would appear I’m getting 6-8 eggs per 12 day period per hen. Not something to write home about in a laying flock, but definitely enough to keep the flock going and provide eggs for a family smaller than mine as a dual purpose flock.

And for those also wondering - there are three cameras to catch all angles, as the two hens look identical except for a small difference in their combs, and I have a third camera positioned directly over the nest to catch any egg eaters in the act. Happy to report though that the egg eaters must have been some of the young cockerels, because there has been no egg consumption since I returned the hens and their nests to the flock.

 

[Ridgerunner]

the two hens look identical except for a small difference in their combs,

Leg bands aren't exposed when they are on the nest, but a small drop of food coloring in an exposed location on one's feathers could be easy to see.

 

[imacowgirl2]

Quick update: one of the young pullets has started laying. Leg banded everyone yesterday to help determine which one it is, because she just earned herself a free pass as a lifetime member of the flock…she started laying right at four months old!! All the pullets I held back, even the couple that were supposed to be processed but weren’t, weren’t crazy small at my ideal processing age of 14 weeks, so I want to see if she will pass this early egg laying on to her offspring…it would be amazing to routinely have pullets laying at 4 months that are also weighing in at 7+ lbs at 14 weeks…talk about truly dual purpose bird!

 

[imacowgirl2]

Another update: we've been battling a rash of nightly raccoon attacks; while my coop of meat birds has been mostly untouched compared to the layer coop, for whatever reason, one night 4 of my hens/pullets didn't go into the coop, so when my son closed it after dark, they were locked out. Lost all 4 of them to a raccoon that night. Unfortunately, one of my older hens was in that group, so I'm down to 1 hen, 3 pullets (the one that had started laying included, thankfully!), and my rooster in the meatbird coop. Out of the bachelor pad, we also lost both of my backup/spare roosters, so I'm down to one rooster right now. We do have approximately 20 chicks in the brooder that were in the incubator during the attacks, so hopefully I will have a good rooster come out of some of those.

When I was taking the carcasses out after the attack, I did notice that there was quite a bit of internal fat in one of them, I'm assuming the older hen. Considering she was about 10 months old, I'll be interested to see if the other hen has any issues as she gets older.

Debating whether I should start limiting their feed to help prevent that excess internal fat; not only would it save on feed costs, but hopefully keep them healthier longer, as well as likely make it easier for them to tolerate the heat of the summer here -- if anyone limits feed of their breeding meat bird flock, how do you do it? I was thinking measuring out x amount of feed per bird per day and giving them just that and when its gone, its gone. But then I wondered if 12 on, 12 off, like the growing Cornish X get, would be better. Thoughts?

 

[imacowgirl2]

Picture of the cuties in the brooder, just because…

 

[FunClucks]

Another update: we've been battling a rash of nightly raccoon attacks; while my coop of meat birds has been mostly untouched compared to the layer coop, for whatever reason, one night 4 of my hens/pullets didn't go into the coop, so when my son closed it after dark, they were locked out. Lost all 4 of them to a raccoon that night. Unfortunately, one of my older hens was in that group, so I'm down to 1 hen, 3 pullets (the one that had started laying included, thankfully!), and my rooster in the meatbird coop. Out of the bachelor pad, we also lost both of my backup/spare roosters, so I'm down to one rooster right now. We do have approximately 20 chicks in the brooder that were in the incubator during the attacks, so hopefully I will have a good rooster come out of some of those.

When I was taking the carcasses out after the attack, I did notice that there was quite a bit of internal fat in one of them, I'm assuming the older hen. Considering she was about 10 months old, I'll be interested to see if the other hen has any issues as she gets older.

Debating whether I should start limiting their feed to help prevent that excess internal fat; not only would it save on feed costs, but hopefully keep them healthier longer, as well as likely make it easier for them to tolerate the heat of the summer here -- if anyone limits feed of their breeding meat bird flock, how do you do it? I was thinking measuring out x amount of feed per bird per day and giving them just that and when its gone, its gone. But then I wondered if 12 on, 12 off, like the growing Cornish X get, would be better. Thoughts?

So sorry you lost your birds! That sucks! The predators will be back until they can't get in again for some time.

When I processed my CX, the hens at 9 wks had quite a bit of fat compared to the roosters. They collect it in preparation for laying, so I know they weren't done collecting it as they were only 9 wks.

I don't know that I'd limit feed to reduce fat. Now, if you wanted to slow weight gain, feed limiting might make sense. In order to reduce fat, inspect the composition of the hens diet, including treats and commercial feed. Usually excess fat is due to too many high fat treats or a higher fat commercial feed. It's not a quantity issue but a quality issue with the diet.

But if you can post a picture, that would be best. I suspect what seemed like a lot of fat to you may be a normal amount of fat for an egg laying hen, a picture will tell us.

 

[Molpet]

if anyone limits feed of their breeding meat bird flock, how do you do it?

All they can eat in 20 minutes twice a day.

 

[imacowgirl2]

So sorry you lost your birds! That sucks! The predators will be back until they can't get in again for some time.

When I processed my CX, the hens at 9 wks had quite a bit of fat compared to the roosters. They collect it in preparation for laying, so I know they weren't done collecting it as they were only 9 wks.

I don't know that I'd limit feed to reduce fat. Now, if you wanted to slow weight gain, feed limiting might make sense. In order to reduce fat, inspect the composition of the hens diet, including treats and commercial feed. Usually excess fat is due to too many high fat treats or a higher fat commercial feed. It's not a quantity issue but a quality issue with the diet.

But if you can post a picture, that would be best. I suspect what seemed like a lot of fat to you may be a normal amount of fat for an egg laying hen, a picture will tell us.

I didn’t get any pictures, I just noticed it as I picked up the carcass, which happened to be torn open on the bottom of the abdomen, right where I cut when butchering, and there was so many flies around I was just trying to get them moved as quickly as possible.

I was mentally comparing her to the last batch I processed which did include pullets — but since these birds usually don’t lay until 6 months or slightly more, and I processed the last batch at 14 weeks, that makes sense that those pullets wouldn’t have all their fat stored yet. That makes me feel better!!

These guys get basically zero treats…mostly because it’s way easier for me to dump kitchen scraps into the compost pile in the layer run (my setup allows me to do this from the outside of the run) than it is to have to physically go into the meat bird run to give them anything. They free range once a week if that, so their diet is mostly commercial feed, which if I remember correctly is 2 or 3% fat; it’s very similar to the Nutrena Nature Wise All Flock.

 

[FunClucks]

I didn’t get any pictures, I just noticed it as I picked up the carcass, which happened to be torn open on the bottom of the abdomen, right where I cut when butchering, and there was so many flies around I was just trying to get them moved as quickly as possible.

I was mentally comparing her to the last batch I processed which did include pullets — but since these birds usually don’t lay until 6 months or slightly more, and I processed the last batch at 14 weeks, that makes sense that those pullets wouldn’t have all their fat stored yet. That makes me feel better!!

These guys get basically zero treats…mostly because it’s way easier for me to dump kitchen scraps into the compost pile in the layer run (my setup allows me to do this from the outside of the run) than it is to have to physically go into the meat bird run to give them anything. They free range once a week if that, so their diet is mostly commercial feed, which if I remember correctly is 2 or 3% fat; it’s very similar to the Nutrena Nature Wise All Flock.

Sounds like your feeding is fine for the meat birds. I would just assume they're storing fat in preparation for laying, and not worry about it. Now, if you butcher them, or have a minute to look at the birds that died and start to see enlarge livers, enlarged hearts, tumors, etc, if things don't look like they should, then I'd worry something was going on.