Questions about fermented food and feeding

[Janelyn]

I have 6 RIR hens, 5 Indian Runner male ducks all about 3 months old and 4 Orphington 2week old pullet chicks.
I am new, these are my first birds, and read today about fermented feeding and all the benefits.
I have to admit I found a couple other threads that are pages and pages long, full of info and babble, and I lost focus. So I am sorry if this is the wrong thing to do.

So here are my questions.
What type of "food" do I start with, keeping the ages and type of birds I have?
Is there a type of food I can start with for all?
What is AVC?
How much food do I give the older chickens/ducks each day? 1 cup, 1/2 cup or?
Do I start with a 5 gallon bucket and will it last without going bad?
Do I keep adding food to it each day, on top of the existing?


I think what I am really unsure of, to get started is, type of food, specifically, Flock Raiser, Scratch, or other?
After getting it in the bucket with water and a glug of cider vinegar, when do I start dishing it out?
How much to feed?
Do I put the lid on or will it blow up? Kidding, but maybe not!

That is it for now.

Thank you
Janelyn

 

[BuffOrpington88]

I'm not quite sure with ducks, but I think you can put them all on medicated chick starter, unless they already got a shot for coccidiosis. Don't use layer feed because the added calcium will hurt their kidneys.

ACV=Apple Cider Vinegar

Allow them access to as much food as they want. They will self regulate.

I would stay away from fermented feed, at least until they are older. Then they'll be a little more hardy, it seems as if the fermented feed will be a lot of trouble at first and may spoil quickly.

Good luck!

 

[stake]

This was posted by a BYCer from PA, Sally has lots of info in her signature on all things chicken....

 

[tymimo]

Just a couple points of clarification from that video.

1. The Apple Cider Vinegar is not necessary to ferment the feed but probably inhibits the growth of bad bacteria until the Lactic Acid Bacteria (LABs) have a chance to get started. You can help start the Lacto-fermentation by adding liquid from fermented vegetables such as sauerkraut. Some recommend adding whey from yogurt making however these are LABs that generally need a warmer temperature to be effective (around 110-120 degrees F).
2. The LABs are anaerobic and do not need air, but in the process of fermenting will produce carbon dioxide, which could pop the lid of a covered bucket. Other posters recommend a layer of at least 1 inch of water above the level of the fermenting feed to create a barrier from the oxygen.

 

[pdirt]

Tymimo is correct, you don't need to use ACV to ferment your feed. The vinegar (any vinegar would do, including white distilled) does make for a more acidic environment which gives the LAB's a leg up on establishing themselves as the dominant strain of bacteria in the feed. If after several days of fermenting it doesn't smell slightly sour/pickled and smells just down right nasty, toss it, the LAB's didn't win. You also don't need much vinegar to work, a TBS or two per gallon will do.

I have been using EM (effective microorganisms) to ferment both the grower and starter feeds. EM is a soil-based probiotic (yeasts, LABs and photosynthetic bacteria), popular in chicken farms especially in Asian countries and gaining popularity here. Yes, you don't need a starter culture (like EM) to ferment, the LABs are already on the feed and the water/ACV method will work. The upside of using EM is a possibly better fermentation and an especially drier end product. You don't need to keep the feed under liquid when using EM, only damp like a wrung out sponge. There is no straining or dripping to deal with. Rather than a continuous jar method (which could eventually become incredibly sour...you can have too much sour believe it or not!), I ferment a jar at a time. About 5 days before I think I will use up a jar, I will start a new one. I feed about a cup a day or so a day to our 6 chickens, the rest they forage for or eat unfermented feed. The downside is you do need to purchase the EM mother culture and "activate" it with molasses for about 5 days before using it. Another upside is the mother culture goes a long way (one quart (about $25) can be activated into 5 gallons). Yet another upside is using the Activated EM to inoculate your deep litter method or at least as weekly spray down of the coop and run to help digest the odors and droppings more efficiently.

I also use it instead of apple cider vinegar in the waterers. I did a test at first giving the chickens free choice between plain water and (highly diluted, about 1:700) EM water. They always drank all of the EM water before going to the plain water.

It's also said that feeding and/or watering chickens with EM will reduce the odors in their droppings. I have never had chickens before so I don't have anything to compare it to. There really isn't much if any smell, though they don't spend much time in their coop or run and I like I said I do spray it all down about once or every two weeks, proactively. The 5-week old chicks, however, they stink! I have also been giving them EM and possibly their little digestive tracks have not yet developed yet or they haven't had the EM long enough to the point where they don't stink so bad. They also are not yet free-ranging.

A very interesting article on EM use on a small-ish Japanese chicken farm: http://www.emro-asia.com/data/117.pdf

 

[LoneOak]

I agree with BuffOrpingtons post above. Just stay away from fermented feed to start with. Find a good Starter Grower feed, most all are medicated as needed, and use that to start with. I don't know about Ducks, but for the chickens get a good hanging feeder and just make sure it doesn't go empty, I wouldn't fill it every day just when it starts to get low. Make sure they can get all the water they want.

Most all they will do is eat, drink, poop and sleep with a little running around play incluced. By the time they get old enough to start laying eggs you will have read and studied enough to decide if you want to fermit feed and all that kind of stuff. I put ACV in my birds water but I don't bother with fermiting feed, I really have never understood why any one does, large scale growing farms or egg farms dont, they just feed the same basic layer feed or meat bird feed that we get. Fermenting is just something else that takes extra time that I don't always have. I know the purist love it and each to their own, so don't jump on me about it please.

 

[pdirt]

Of course, to each his own as to whether to ferment feed or not. One thing I have noticed with our 5-week old chicks:

They are in a pen with a "mason jar feeder" that I typically fill up once or twice a day. Like clockwork, if I feed them a small amount of fermented starter feed, I don't have fill up their feeder again that day and not until late the following day. If I don't feed them the fermented feed, they eat more. It is so predictable I can't think of what other reason it would be other than the fermented feed, since that is the only change. It is one of the claims/benefits of feeding fermented feed...they don't eat as much and hence the feed bill is not as high, let alone the suggested health benefits. No big deal when they are little like this, but when they get bigger, that feed bill will certainly go up. I can't tell if this is the case with my free-ranging layers (whom I also do feed fermented feed) since they eat so much foraging and very little feed. But the babies are confined so they only eat what I give them. Also, if I fill up their feeder, they aren't interested, but if I give them a few tablespoons of fermented feed, they gobble it down in a couple minutes.

 

[nab58]

OK, I just learned something!
I've read MANY threads on fermented feed but did not realize that the ACV didn't actually contribute to the bacterial growth but instead prohibited the bad bacteria until the good stuff takes over.

So can I add a little kefir to my fermented mix to add some probiotics?

 

[Janelyn]

Lone

Why would anyone jump on you? I appreciate your perspective.
Thank you
Janelyn

 

[Janelyn]

One thing is not clear to me. Since I have Ducks and Chickens together, I feed Flock Raiser and toss Scratch. Is that what I use to start the fermented food? Can I mix them in one bucket?

Thank you
Janelyn