new research debunks trad views on nutrition

[Ital]

Obviously you've got who knows what commitments besides chicken-tending and you'll need a system that works for you, but this seems to put the cart before the horse. I'd decide on the nutrition you want to provide and then figure out how to deliver it. Letting the delivery system determine the nutrition is what feed manufacturers have to do, and is what leads to most of the problems they encounter and then have to add things to solve.

it’s not so much other commitments as required space, the more bowls I add the smaller each bowl gets unless I add to their size vertically.
If I had more space I’d probably be fermenting everything and have standard bowls big enough for a days supply of each thing but with 30 small enough bowls to fit in the available space I’m worried a quail could take out a favourite ingredient quicker than I can replace it causing competition.
It’s all speculation so things I consider potential issues now may turn out not to be, eggs rested and going into the incubator this morning, very excited.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Have you considered plastic gutters, horizontally?

I used the J feeders, found they worked very well for some feeds, not well for others, and were a pain to fill (due to their location - my error). When I played around with fermented feed, I got the 5" plastic K style gutters. Cheap, held semi liquid materials, easy to clean, easy to fill. I don't ferment anymore, but works well for wet mash, too

 

[Ital]

Have you considered plastic gutters, horizontally?

I used the J feeders, found they worked very well for some feeds, not well for others, and were a pain to fill (due to their location - my error). When I played around with fermented feed, I got the 5" plastic K style gutters. Cheap, held semi liquid materials, easy to clean, easy to fill. I don't ferment anymore, but works well for wet mash, too

The current set up is similar to that using the long feeders with lots of access holes, I’m adding dividers between each hole but as they grow and intake increases I’m thinking of adding pipes along one side of it to auto fill the other.
It’ll be cheaper than buying two fittings for each pipe to make a j.

 

[Molpet]

https://www.poultryworld.net/health-nutrition/nutrition/getting-trace-mineral-levels-right/

 

[Geena]

it’s not so much other commitments as required space, the more bowls I add the smaller each bowl gets unless I add to their size vertically.
If I had more space I’d probably be fermenting everything and have standard bowls big enough for a days supply of each thing but with 30 small enough bowls to fit in the available space I’m worried a quail could take out a favourite ingredient quicker than I can replace it causing competition.
It’s all speculation so things I consider potential issues now may turn out not to be, eggs rested and going into the incubator this morning, very excited.

I wouldn't use open bowls for quail they like to dig through feed and fling it everywhere, and would empty the bowls in no time.

 

[Perris]

That seems to be an extended ad for a new Zinpro vit and min premix, and the only mineral it claims is reduced in the excreta is zinc, which is not top of the problem surplus minerals in chicken poo list.
And is for birds that live a whole 36 DAYS

And this meta analysis suggests that studies of the type it was based on cannot be relied on
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579123001906

 

[Somewhere_In_The_Clouds]

Sorry to go a bit off topic but @H a r l e q u i n are you doing this with quail? What kind?
Just curious I'd be very interesting in how you do.

 

[Ital]

Sorry to go a bit off topic but @H a r l e q u i n are you doing this with quail? What kind?
Just curious I'd be very interesting in how you do.

I couldn’t find any harlequin which was the original plan so it’ll be Italian coturnix, I’ll make progress reports on here but might start a new thread so as not to highjack this one.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/free-rein-feeding-method.1581742/

 

[Perris]

Giving a 'balancer' is a blanket administration of all the minerals in it, which may take it to toxic levels for some of them if the bird is already getting ample in their regular diet.

I recently came across something relevant to this:
"Mixing
Trace elements and vitamins should be correctly mixed before being added to the raw materials. Premixes have to be mixed at a minimum level of 3kg per tonne. Improper mixing or handling can be checked by dosing manganese as a tracer.

Toxicity of some minerals
Maximum admissible levels for different minerals can be estimated as follows:
Potassium 2000 ppm
Sodium 5000 ppm
Iron 500 ppm
Zinc 2000 ppm
Selenium 10 ppm
Vanadium 10 ppm (due to contamination from rock phosphates)
Magnesium 5000 ppm
Chlorine 5000 ppm
Manganese 1000 ppm
Copper 300-500 ppm
Iodine 300-500 ppm"

I have not noticed anyone recommending using premixes on BYC include the bit about "Premixes have to be mixed at a minimum level of 3kg per tonne", and I wonder how many backyard chicken keepers are adding premixes/balancers at anything like that minimum recommended rate. Perhaps one of the professional feed formulators on here can enlighten us as to why the 3kg/tonne figure exists?

 

[Ital]

I recently came across something relevant to this:
"Mixing
Trace elements and vitamins should be correctly mixed before being added to the raw materials. Premixes have to be mixed at a minimum level of 3kg per tonne. Improper mixing or handling can be checked by dosing manganese as a tracer.

Toxicity of some minerals
Maximum admissible levels for different minerals can be estimated as follows:
Potassium 2000 ppm
Sodium 5000 ppm
Iron 500 ppm
Zinc 2000 ppm
Selenium 10 ppm
Vanadium 10 ppm (due to contamination from rock phosphates)
Magnesium 5000 ppm
Chlorine 5000 ppm
Manganese 1000 ppm
Copper 300-500 ppm
Iodine 300-500 ppm"

I have not noticed anyone recommending using premixes on BYC include the bit about "Premixes have to be mixed at a minimum level of 3kg per tonne", and I wonder how many backyard chicken keepers are adding premixes/balancers at anything like that minimum recommended rate. Perhaps one of the professional feed formulators on here can enlighten us as to why the 3kg/tonne figure exists?

Would an amateur feed formulator suffice? Could be because they tend to be mostly wheat and there are recommendations from the who now about its fortification.
It’d be odd if it applies to chicken food though because the recommended levels are set for malnourished humans, not chickens.