new research debunks trad views on nutrition

[Shadrach]

but it's clearly inapplicable to chickens, who eat grass for its nutritional value, as discussed with links to relevant papers somewhere back on this thread.

I suspect that chickens may eat grass and other certain forage for more complex reasons. It's the timing of the bulk of the grass eating (a bit like the dogs mentioned above) that intrigues me.

 

[Geena]

I suspect that chickens may eat grass and other certain forage for more complex reasons. It's the timing of the bulk of the grass eating (a bit like the dogs mentioned above) that intrigues me.

I believe the nutritional value of grass changes throughout the year, depending on the season, temperature, rainfall, type and maturity of the grass. Maybe that's why it's more attractive at certain times?

As for dogs, since they are not obligate carnivores, could be they just need a little roughage in their diet. As @Molpet mentioned mine always go for the rough, thick bladed clump grass which I imagine offers very little in the way of nutrition.

 

[Sally PB]

As for dogs, since they are not obligate carnivores, could be they just need a little roughage in their diet.

Maybe our dogs just like the taste...? We call grass "doggie salad."

 

[Molpet]

I believe the nutritional value of grass changes throughout the year, depending on the season, temperature, rainfall, type and maturity of the grass. Maybe that's why it's more attractive at certain times?

As for dogs, since they are not obligate carnivores, could be they just need a little roughage in their diet. As @Molpet mentioned mine always go for the rough, thick bladed clump grass which I imagine offers very little in the way of nutrition.

Currently dog, Australian shepherd mix, eats the grass after breakfast and so far doesn't hack it up.
Dog before, St Bernard/Newfoundland, would hack up the same grass, most of the time.

 

[Geena]

Currently dog, Australian shepherd mix, eats the grass after breakfast and so far doesn't hack it up.
Dog before, St Bernard/Newfoundland, would hack up the same grass, most of the time.

Mine eat some everyday too, in the afternoon and don't hack it up, although sometimes they gag a bit. Who knows

Maybe our dogs just like the taste...? We call grass "doggie salad."

Or maybe they are just flossing their teeth

 

[Ital]

I wouldn't expect hight production breeds to fare well on the diets of low capacity free rangers or feral groups.

This is also true for plants that have been grown with salt for enough generations and have lost their ability to communicate with soil biology but they can be re trained to be capable of thriving in an organic medium given time and enough diversity.
It is a worry for me though so I’ll be carefully measuring what they eat and intervening if needed.

What I have found very interesting is how quickly some of the Ex Battery hens I know who had never even seen a blade of grass before adapt to foraging

This amazed me too with ex bats and gives me hope, mine quickly developed different warning sounds for aerial and ground predators, I could tell if a cat or a seagull was passing from inside the house by the different noises they made.

 

[Perris]

Again, what is true is their egg laying capacity will be less than with an optimal diet.

I'm not sure that's true. So often overlooked, the so-called 'optimal' diet includes the least cost element and a short lifetime (c. 18 months); it is optimal for the egg farmer, not the chicken. A 'spent hen' shows how far short of even an adequate diet (from the bird's complete health point of view) it really is.

I suspect (but cannot cite any proper study to demonstrate) that a bird with a better diet will lay more, as well as better quality, eggs than a commercial layer on a commercial diet.

 

[Ital]

a bird with a better diet will lay more, as well as better quality, eggs than a commercial layer on a commercial diet.

This seems obvious to me and the arguments for layer pellets remind me of Africa, nestle, and bottled milk.
I still can’t help being a bit nervous about giving them free choice though, especially as chicks. All those years of brainwashing to trust big brands over nature and my own logic are difficult to shake.
Hoping they don’t just eat mealworms, only one way to find out.

 

[Perris]

you can control how much you put out of any particular food of course, if you're really worried about their ability to self-regulate.
And in the case of a sick bird who just needs to eat something/anything, I have a paper for zoo vets recommending letting them eat however many they want.

 

[Geena]

I suspect (but cannot cite any proper study to demonstrate) that a bird with a better diet will lay more, as well as better quality, eggs than a commercial layer on a commercial diet.

Certainly better quality eggs, but it could be after so many generations of selective breeding the commercial layers have evolved to do better on the commercial feed, as much as the diet has been tailored specifically for them.