new research debunks trad views on nutrition

[U_Stormcrow]

<<< Liming.

Need more. MUCH more.

 

[Sally PB]

Liming.

Need more. MUCH more.

How do you incorporate it into your clay soil?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I lay it out and let the chickens work it in.

 

[saysfaa]

One brazil nut has the right amount of selenium for a person for a day. Not so much that you need to worry about getting some in the other foods you eat but enough to not have to worry about getting enough in your diet.

It is too late to edit but I was wrong... some people do not have to worry about getting some in their diet.

People who live in regions of high selenium and eat a lot of locally produced foods should be concerned about too much, possibly even without eating a brazil nut per day.

 

[Shadrach]

I've worked my way through most of the studies of interest/relevance in this thread now and I can't help feeling that there are a few elephants in the room.

The first is, it doesn't matter what the nutritional value of any of the feeds or forage is if the chickens can't get to it for long enough and at the right times.
Confined chickens may eat at a fairly regular pace throughout the day but ime this isn't the case for free range chickens or even those that range for a couple of hours a day.

Forage diversity is always going to be a problem. What isn't taken into account because we don't have any meaningful research on it is what the chickens get from in the soil rather than what grows on it.

I do and so do others supply foodstuffs that we know to have wide ranging nutritional benefits. This costs money and takes time and some elementary knowledge that most of the BYC keepers I've read don't have.

Then there is the matter of optimal diet and adequate diet and what in reality this means for the chicken and keeper. Optimal from what I've read tends to be based on bird weight and egg production. If I lose a percentage of eggs over a year due to suboptimal diet but the hen is otherwise healthy, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. Same applies to body weight. The healthy bodyweight guages haven't seemed relevant to the majority of the free rangers I've cared for, or the breeds.

In much of this debate the optimal is dictated by the commercial sector with a very narrow goal. Should ones goal be different then much of the information isn't relevant.

Finally, half the health equation is missing. It doesn't matter much what a chicken eats within reason if all it does is sit and eat; it will still get fat and unfit.
Chickens need to work for their food. They are foragers and hunters and it's carrying out these activities that help keep them healthy, both mentally and physically. Most creatures are like this.

In order to promote maximum health one would need to persuade the backyard keepers that their keeping model is unhealthy and I just can't see that going down well.

 

[Ital]

I've worked my way through most of the studies of interest/relevance in this thread now and I can't help feeling that there are a few elephants in the room.

The first is, it doesn't matter what the nutritional value of any of the feeds or forage is if the chickens can't get to it for long enough and at the right times.
Confined chickens may eat at a fairly regular pace throughout the day but ime this isn't the case for free range chickens or even those that range for a couple of hours a day.

Forage diversity is always going to be a problem. What isn't taken into account because we don't have any meaningful research on it is what the chickens get from in the soil rather than what grows on it.

I do and so do others supply foodstuffs that we know to have wide ranging nutritional benefits. This costs money and takes time and some elementary knowledge that most of the BYC keepers I've read don't have.

Then there is the matter of optimal diet and adequate diet and what in reality this means for the chicken and keeper. Optimal from what I've read tends to be based on bird weight and egg production. If I lose a percentage of eggs over a year due to suboptimal diet but the hen is otherwise healthy, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. Same applies to body weight. The healthy bodyweight guages haven't seemed relevant to the majority of the free rangers I've cared for, or the breeds.

In much of this debate the optimal is dictated by the commercial sector with a very narrow goal. Should ones goal be different then much of the information isn't relevant.

Finally, half the health equation is missing. It doesn't matter much what a chicken eats within reason if all it does is sit and eat; it will still get fat and unfit.
Chickens need to work for their food. They are foragers and hunters and it's carrying out these activities that help keep them healthy, both mentally and physically. Most creatures are like this.

In order to promote maximum health one would need to persuade the backyard keepers that their keeping model is unhealthy and I just can't see that going down well.

I’m not sure that having every item in their diet available at all times is necessarily advantageous if there’s enough variety.

I eat cleavers as a spring tonic and more starchy roots/tubers in winter and believe seasonally eating whatever’s locally available is probably a better choice than a diet of constantly available imported produce.

It seems to me that the main issue is variance of nutritional requirement between birds, at different points of growth, times of year, and general activity. This can’t be formulated in a standard mix so an average is provided at the least possible cost which I suspect is far from optimal for their health.

Also it probably does matter quite a bit what a chicken eats if sitting all day and possible that given the opportunity she/he would self regulate their intake accordingly by choosing items with a higher nutritional density and less fat/carbs.

The swan that nests here won’t eat anything at all while she sits on her eggs no matter how much bread the locals pile up next to her for the rats. I’m yet to be convinced that the constant availability of bread is especially helpful in this instance but it’s well intended at least.

 

[Perris]

I've worked my way through most of the studies of interest/relevance in this thread now and I can't help feeling that there are a few elephants in the room.

The first is, it doesn't matter what the nutritional value of any of the feeds or forage is if the chickens can't get to it for long enough and at the right times.
Confined chickens may eat at a fairly regular pace throughout the day but ime this isn't the case for free range chickens or even those that range for a couple of hours a day.

Forage diversity is always going to be a problem. What isn't taken into account because we don't have any meaningful research on it is what the chickens get from in the soil rather than what grows on it.

I do and so do others supply foodstuffs that we know to have wide ranging nutritional benefits. This costs money and takes time and some elementary knowledge that most of the BYC keepers I've read don't have.

Then there is the matter of optimal diet and adequate diet and what in reality this means for the chicken and keeper. Optimal from what I've read tends to be based on bird weight and egg production. If I lose a percentage of eggs over a year due to suboptimal diet but the hen is otherwise healthy, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. Same applies to body weight. The healthy bodyweight guages haven't seemed relevant to the majority of the free rangers I've cared for, or the breeds.

In much of this debate the optimal is dictated by the commercial sector with a very narrow goal. Should ones goal be different then much of the information isn't relevant.

Finally, half the health equation is missing. It doesn't matter much what a chicken eats within reason if all it does is sit and eat; it will still get fat and unfit.
Chickens need to work for their food. They are foragers and hunters and it's carrying out these activities that help keep them healthy, both mentally and physically. Most creatures are like this.

In order to promote maximum health one would need to persuade the backyard keepers that their keeping model is unhealthy and I just can't see that going down well.

This is very perceptive and clearly articulated; thank you for these observations.

On specifics, why they eat shavings (the fibre value) was explained recently, and the new trend to assess soil on the basis of the life in it (a biological evaluation, in addition to the current chemical NPK one) should soon start to supply answers to your question about what chickens get from the soil, as opposed to what grows on it.

 

[Ital]

the new trend to assess soil on the basis of the life in it (a biological evaluation, in addition to the current chemical NPK one)

Hopefully we’ll soon discover why dogs eat the tops of grass from very specific areas first thing in the morning, I suspect they’re hunting Protozoa so will take a bit for my compost worms when they find a good spot.

 

[Perris]

Hopefully we’ll soon discover why dogs eat the tops of grass from very specific areas first thing in the morning, I suspect they’re hunting Protozoa so will take a bit for my compost worms when they find a good spot.

my chickens do that too - some bits of lawn barely need mowing, others grow dense - so I'd be interested in anything you find out there!

 

[NatJ]

Hopefully we’ll soon discover why dogs eat the tops of grass from very specific areas first thing in the morning, I suspect they’re hunting Protozoa so will take a bit for my compost worms when they find a good spot.

I have seen that chickens will eat grass seeds while leaving most of the stem behind.

If the grass has seeds, dogs might be doing the same thing. If the grass does not have seeds, then obviously something else is going on.