new research debunks trad views on nutrition

[U_Stormcrow]

Like Vitamin K having a role in Vitamin D enabling Calcium to be absorbed - and fat in the diet being necessary for both Vitamin D and Vitamin K to function. Or excess salt in the diet resulting in Calcium being pulled from the bones (I'm drowning a bit in calcium related things as I recently found out I have osteoporosis quite a bit worse than "normal" - if there is such a thing.)

My VERY sincere condolences. Yes, there is such a thing. My wife suffers. Hope it was diagnosed early and you can enact some dietary steps to slow progression. We are dreading her next bone density scan.

 

[Perris]

I free range - as you know. But I know my soils are deficient across a range of measures, as are the crops I can successfully grow. So I provide commercial feed and let them suppliment/balance down with what they obtain in the pasture and the surrounding wood.

No matter how enticing it may be to simply trust, they can't eat what isn't present.

Different situations, different needs, different management.

I don't think anyone here is, could be, or even wants to be 100% self-sufficient, so let's park that notion instead of letting it distract (again).

Most of us don't appear to grow any cereal or soy or whatever in sufficient quantity for even a small flock, so we're all buying in foods to offer our chickens. That's where, if our local soils are known to be deficient in something, we can ensure we supply what may be lacking.

You choose commercial feed, but it isn't the only option, and less confident people may be nervous about giving up the comfort blanket of a respected brand of poultry feed (especially when faced with the usual blizzard of dire warnings that emanate from some posters on BYC, who conspicuously fail to back up their strongly asserted opinions with evidence).

Certainly commercial feed has convenience going for it. But I am more interested in the quality of the food that my chickens eat. You mentioned just recently that whole wheat is a good source of selenium (for example). It is a good source of much else besides, nutrients that are mostly lost during the refining process (to make it into flour or poultry feed). See e.g. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/whole-grains/

 

[Perris]

The other side to such things as were my last few post is how many factors influence any given thing. Like the Vitamin E decreasing the amount of selenium needed. Like Vitamin K having a role in Vitamin D enabling Calcium to be absorbed - and fat in the diet being necessary for both Vitamin D and Vitamin K to function. Or excess salt in the diet resulting in Calcium being pulled from the bones (I'm drowning a bit in calcium related things as I recently found out I have osteoporosis quite a bit worse than "normal" - if there is such a thing.)

I'm very sorry to read that you have osteoporosis; I do hope your extensive reading helps you deal with it as well as possible.

 

[Perris]

The other side to such things as were my last few post is how many factors influence any given thing. Like the Vitamin E decreasing the amount of selenium needed. Like Vitamin K having a role in Vitamin D enabling Calcium to be absorbed - and fat in the diet being necessary for both Vitamin D and Vitamin K to function. Or excess salt in the diet resulting in Calcium being pulled from the bones

this is a very important point.

It is widely acknowledged that broodies know more about incubating eggs and raising chicks than we do. My hope is that we will start to acknowledge that they know more about what they need to eat than we do.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

and if "we" (collectively) are importing our own ingredients to feed our chickens, most of "we" not knowing what more than two or three of their nutritional targets are, how is that in any way superior to simply buying a commercially produced feed (whole grain and/or organic if desired)?

I've seen a lot of efforts at recipes here for feeding birds, and most of "we" can't get crude protein right. I'm not sure I would place my trust in those same "we" to put enough variation out there that their chickens could attempt to balance their own feed. Again, a chicken can't balance what isn't present. and they certainly wouldn't be cost effective doing it.

Its not that I don't trust the birds to mostly try to eat what they need, its that I don't trust the humans to provide it when, in their (however well meaning) ignorance they try to formulate a complete feed on their own - often by thowing down whatever craze is the internet buzzword of the month. Then assuming everything is fine.

To paraphrase George Carlin, "think about how stupid the average human is. Now consider that half of them are stupider than that."

 

[Ital]

@saysfaa sorry to hear about your issues, could it be connected with your oestrogen levels? Most oestrogen replacements are horribly toxic but red clover is safe and effective.
Also, can anyone recommend a different kind of nut to offer as a free choice that..
1 chickens like eating.
2 contains good levels of selenium but with lower levels/risk of them overdoing it than Brazil nuts.
3 are less likely to be contaminated with chemicals than peanuts which are apparently very difficult to grow organically.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Brown rice. Which is lkargely a carb replacement for corn, but tends to have mooderately high levels of selenium.


Whether you need additional selenium or not is an entirely different question you should answer first.

 

[Ital]

Brown rice.. Whether you need additional selenium or not is an entirely different question you should answer first.

Thanks for the tip, I will ask my chooks

 

[Perris]

@saysfaa sorry to hear about your issues, could it be connected with your oestrogen levels? Most oestrogen replacements are horribly toxic but red clover is safe and effective.
Also, can anyone recommend a different kind of nut to offer as a free choice that..
1 chickens like eating.
2 contain good levels of selenium but with lower levels/risk of them overdoing it than Brazil nuts.
3 are less likely to be contaminated with chemicals than peanuts which are apparently very difficult to grow organically.

this is a useful tool for that sort of enquiry
https://www.myfooddata.com/search?search=selenium

 

[Ital]

T

this is a useful tool for that sort of enquiry
https://www.myfooddata.com/search?search=selenium

Thanks, I’ve been using this a fair bit to add up totals of my other ingredients, shame they don’t have info for crickets, nettles, mealworms, dubia roaches, calci worms ect.
I thought someone may have tried a variety of nut that was a particular favourite, brown rice is a great idea.