new research debunks trad views on nutrition

[NatJ]

do you not accept the nutritionists' argument that vitamins and minerals are better when obtained from real food rather than synthetic supplements?

I start with the basic point that if a chicken shows a deficiency without the supplement, and not with the supplement, then the supplement is doing SOME good. I can't say whether it is better than another source, just that it is better than no source.

But that was not the question that was being addressed recently. Someone already has a variety of natural sources, and wanted to offer something else that provides "minerals." They did not say WHICH minerals, so I mentioned something that is meant to provide a wide range of minerals, at a level that appears to reliably prevent deficiencies in the thousands or millions of chickens that eat food containing it. (The line you quoted was part of my description of that supplement.)

After they clarified that salt is the only thing they are trying to provide, I agreed that the salt they already have should be a fine source of salt.

 

[Perris]

something that is meant to provide a wide range of minerals, at a level that appears to reliably prevent deficiencies in the thousands or millions of chickens that eat food containing it

and who don't have access to anything else.

You appear to be overlooking the possibility of overdosing a bird on minerals that are already in ample supply. The dangers of that are indicated in the 'not more than x' of some constituents.

Surely it is better, if a deficiency is suspected, to look for the signs and symptoms of which one may be deficient, and find a food that is relatively rich in that?

Further, giving such a 'balancer' inserts into your birds' diet all the other chemicals added to make the product palatable to keeper and bird, or facilitate the manufacturing processes, and which don't add positively to the nutrition, and which are potentially harmful.

 

[Geena]

Surely it is better, if a deficiency is suspected, to look for the signs and symptoms of which one may be deficient, and find a food that is relatively rich in that?

Sure, when that's possible, but seeing how chickens (and all birds really) can appear to be just fine and dandy one minute and keel over the next, it might be rather difficult to detect the deficiencies and determine what they might be before it's too late.

 

[Perris]

which mineral deficiency causes a chicken to 'keel over suddenly'?

 

[Geena]

which mineral deficiency causes a chicken to 'keel over suddenly'?

I'm not really sure, it's not something I've ever looked in to, but potassium comes to mind since it has to do with heart function. My main point was that unlike most other animals birds can look healthy even when they very much are not.

 

[Perris]

but dietary deficiencies show in things like curled toes and poor feathering, not something any bird can hide.

 

[Ital]

@U_Stormcrow have you tried growing Jerusalem artichokes where you are? Great for putting organic matter back in the ground, and full of prebiotics for you and your chooks.

 

[Geena]

but dietary deficiencies show in things like curled toes and poor feathering, not something any bird can hide.

True, while in the growing stage anyway. I suppose if one is savvy enough to spot any deficiencies early on they might be able make dietary changes to correct the situation. I admittedly am not, I just don't have the time necessary to look each chicken over thoroughly and assess those sorts of things. It looks like many deficiencies cause irreversible damage though.

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poul...ement-poultry/mineral-deficiencies-in-poultry

 

[U_Stormcrow]

@U_Stormcrow have you tried growing Jerusalem artichokes where you are? Great for putting organic matter back in the ground, and full of prebiotics for you and your chooks.

Sunchokes? I'm woried about their aggression. They can be hard to remove if they get too established. But if the chufa doesn't work this year, I'll look for a source of them to try out

 

[NatJ]

and who don't have access to anything else.

You appear to be overlooking the possibility of overdosing a bird on minerals that are already in ample supply. The dangers of that are indicated in the 'not more than x' of some constituents.

Surely it is better, if a deficiency is suspected, to look for the signs and symptoms of which one may be deficient, and find a food that is relatively rich in that?

Further, giving such a 'balancer' inserts into your birds' diet all the other chemicals added to make the product palatable to keeper and bird, or facilitate the manufacturing processes, and which don't add positively to the nutrition, and which are potentially harmful.

All of those points would matter if someone wanted to use that supplement.

But at first, I was just trying to figure out IF the supplement MIGHT be helpful. I tried to give enough information to figure that out.

Once I learned it was the wrong product for this particular poster, I saw no point in discussing details they did not need (when and how to use it properly, what problems to watch for, what else might work better.) None of that matters to someone who is not using it.