MIXING GROWER/FINISHER & LAYER FEED???

[BethMatt]

I'm sure this question is on here somewhere, I just can't find it..Anyhow, I have 11 chickens that range from 16wks, to 10 wks, we have the all on grower/finisher feed now, however our oldes BR's waddles & comb are really red & she is looking so "Plump" latley, I'm wondering if it would be harmful to MIX layer feed in with our grower/finisher feed? That way they'd all get what they need? Suggestions? Also, how should I give Oster shells (crushed) to the older ones for extra calcium & not to the younger ones??

 

[HeritageGoose13]

Get a separate bucket for everything- layer, oyster shell, grower, etc. Give the birds access to all of it. Some people say they instinctively know what they need and will choose the right one to eat.

 

[pdirt]

It's not a good idea to feed layer feed to any chicken that isn't currently laying eggs. This includes chicks under 18-20 weeks old, molting hens, old hens and roosters.

The damage caused by excessive calcium by a bird that doesn't need it (in the layer feed) can be very bad (kidney damage and visceral gout) in chicks and will also affect older non-laying birds, but over a longer period of time.

If you haven't bought layer feed yet, don't. If you have and haven't opened the bag, I would return it and exchange it for a bag of grower.

Feed grower until everyone is laying and keep a dish 24/7 of crushed oyster shell on the side, for calcium. Your birds will instinctively know if they need more calcium or not. Once everyone is laying eggs, you can either keep feeding this way indefinitely or you can switch to layer feed.

The only problem with layer feed is when your hens molt. Molts will last 2-3 months. If they all molt, then you can just take them off layer and feed grower (with oyster shell on the side), because they won't be laying eggs and shouldn't be force fed extra calcium. When the calcium is mixed into layer feed, they can't pick and choose how much calcium they get. When it is offered on the side as crushed oyster shells, they can pick and choose. But if only some of your hens molt, the grower/oyster feeding plan will also work, because everyone can eat the food safely and those needing calcium for eggs (because they aren't molting and are still laying) can get what they need. If they're molting, they will mostly leave the oyster shells alone, but may peck at it occasionally. But feeding layer feed to a complete or partially molting flock is not a good idea, because of the excessive calcium thing.

The only real difference between layer and grower is the extra calcium in layer feed. Grower also is usually a bit higher in protein, which is good for molts anyways and good if you like to feed them low-protein table scraps and/or scratch grains.

Layer feed is a hassle, because if your flock does molt and you switch to grower for a while, then you will have an open bag of layer feed left over. By the time they are done molting, your open bag of layer will not be fresh enough to use any more. When choosing feed, decide if organic/non-gmo matters to you first, then look at the freshness date (stamped on the feed tag of the bag), then look at the ingredients. Stale/rotten ingredients are not better if they are better ingredients than fresher lower-quality ingredients.

Instead of grower feed, you can also feed "all flock", "flock raiser", chick starter, broiler, game bird feed, turkey grower or turkey finisher. Any of these will work, with a side dish of crushed oyster shell, always available.

Lots of people feed layer feed to all their birds, from chicks, molters and roosters and say, "I've never seen any problems with this and this is what I was told to do." The problems created by excessive calcium are internal. Chickens can't expell unused calcium (calcium that would be expelled in the formation of eggshells), so it will get built up in their kidneys and other internal organs, causing calcification (hardening) of these organs. Eventually, these internal organs will fail. Chicks can develop leg deformities and have trouble walking for their entire lives. Older birds will just fall over and die one day and people will chalk this up to "chickens die". Chickens do die, like everything else, but they always die due to some cause. Without a necropsy (post death inspection/dissection), death by excessive calcium can be impossible to "see".

 

[pdirt]

Get a separate bucket for everything- layer, oyster shell, grower, etc. Give the birds access to all of it. Some people say they instinctively know what they need and will choose the right one to eat.

They will instinctively know when to eat calcium, if it is given on the side, not mixed with anything else. They need food, they need to eat and if the calcium is mixed in (as in layer feed), they will be eating calcium whether they like it or not. The calcium mixed in with commercial layer feed is not crushed oyster shell. It is a much finer (more ground up) form. If it were a coarse form, such as crushed oyster shell is, perhaps they might be able to pick through and avoid the calcium.

 

[HeritageGoose13]

Yeah, that's what I was saying (or trying to say at least. Sorry if I wasn't clear.)

 

[pdirt]

Yeah, that's what I was saying (or trying to say at least. Sorry if I wasn't clear.)

You did say, " get a bucket for everything- layer, oyster shell, grower, etc. Give birds access to all of it...". The young chicks will eat the layer feed, which isn't good for them. I think your idea is spot on, except for the layer part. When it comes to knowing what is good for them, they aren't able to do that with layer feed, because the calcium is already mixed in. They will eat it and it will (slowly) make them very sick...unless they are regularly laying eggs.

 

[HeritageGoose13]

Oh I see what you're saying Okay.

 

[BethMatt]

Yeah, that's what I was saying (or trying to say at least. Sorry if I wasn't clear.)

They will instinctively know when to eat calcium, if it is given on the side, not mixed with anything else. They need food, they need to eat and if the calcium is mixed in (as in layer feed), they will be eating calcium whether they like it or not. The calcium mixed in with commercial layer feed is not crushed oyster shell. It is a much finer (more ground up) form. If it were a coarse form, such as crushed oyster shell is, perhaps they might be able to pick through and avoid the calcium.

Thank you both!! I was all set to go buy layer feed tonight & start mixing it with the feed I've been using since they were 6 wks old. SO if I got it right, still feed them grower/finisher with a side dish readily available for the older/laying hens to CHOOSE to eat when they need it?? Let me just say NONE of our hens are laying yet, this is our FIRST flock ever & I have been researching & reading about how first time layers NEED the extra calcium to lay HARD eggs..otherwise they will always be soft/jelly & uneatable to eat! I was wondering what to offer a molting hen when that happens (haven't experienced that yet :/ ) too, so that answered some of that concern as well...Thank you both, again & any further advise would be greatly appreciated!

 

[pdirt]

Yep, they will choose to eat the oyster shell, when they need it. Grower (or finisher) + oyster shell = choice. Layer feed = no choice. Many people feed the grower/shell method and end up with good hard egg shells. Our shells never come out quite as hard as storebought, but the eggs from the store come from very specially bred chickens and are on a very special diet. But the shells are plenty hard and are certainly eatable eggs.

When they molt, just feed them a higher protein feed during the molt. Think 18-24% protein.

 

[HeritageGoose13]

Our shells never come out quite as hard as storebought, but the eggs from the store come from very specially bred chickens and are on a very special diet. But the shells are plenty hard and are certainly eatable eggs.

That's strange. Store bought eggs are way thinner/softer than the eggs my flock produces. I've impressed my friends by taking a 1 or 2 day old egg, gently tossing it down the hill, watching it bounce, and retrieving it with no cracks whatsoever. Then we'd eat it- the yolk would be broken but it was still tasty. I kind of thought that was typical of fresh/home-grown eggs, no? I guess not. My flock free-ranges so maybe it's something they're eating outside.