Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[DMRippy]

Quote:
Well I don't like all the problems with Marans you like to fix... I like smaller projects....Like Olive Eggers and sex links... they are easy.

 

[gilavina]

Well I don't like all the problems with Marans you like to fix... I like smaller projects....Like Olive Eggers and sex links... they are easy.

haha I see, must be more like my dad that way.

 

[cluckcluckluke]

Not everyone in my family was enthusiastic about them, but I caught the bug, suppose its cause I was so active in the club and shows. I rarely regret selling a bird, most of the time I regret not buying one when I have the chance. I can talk myself out of it too easily it seems. Then a few weeks later I get so annoyed at myself for not getting them while I had the chance.

I do make some money from selling quality birds, but am not actively selling, only locally and as I have surplus to be able to. Much to the chagrin of others I'm sure, but like I tell everyone, I want to do the work necessary on them without the pressure of sales, shipping, gov't programs and etc necessary to ship and etc. I want to do right by the birds and give them as much of my time I can inbetween all the other interests and things I do. Maybe down the road a ways I'll do more, but for now, I'm ok with where I'm at.

I haven't really had enough time in shows etc to buy a lot of birds so never had this problem. I have had to hatch some and just see what I could get from a lot of searching.
Regret sucks.lol.

that's still good if you are making some money and only on low key.
If I plan on breeding I will only really sell fertile eggs and ship them out of my local area because if you supply your area your prices go down because of competition and soon you every one has got them.lol. I have it all planed out

.

Yeah I suppose you do have a lot on your plate with all those projects of yours, so if you have to do more your quality could go down.
Glad your happy with where you are. I am stuck on weather or not to go bigger, or change as I may have to even sell of my flock and not have chickens for sometime.

 

[Wynette]

Good morning, folks! I popped in & have been catching up, and see that some of you who previously stated you wouldn't sell hatching eggs until your line is breeding truer have actually been doing so - kudos to you for sharing your hard work with others!!! So happy to see this!! More folks working on them to move them forward will make it happen much more quickly, IMO!!

The following is a quote from APA judge Ben Porter (requoted here with his permission) - this is good information to keep in mind, and I think speaks to the feelings of many of us who have been breeding the Marans for many years:

I am constantly amazed at people saying I need some new blood in my flock. As Rip [Stalvey, another APA judge] has said many times,the old master breeders almost never add new blood to their flocks. When they did it was always from a line that came from their stock in the hands of a breeder that they knew the importance knowing what was in a line. Inbreeding is the ONLY way to know for sure what is in the genetic make up of a line. Inbreeding IS the fastest way to fix traits. Inbreeding is also the fastest way to REMOVE traits from a line of birds. You have to cull hard an set up breeding pens with a eye for improvement. With out inbreeding we would not have all the different breeds an color varieties, we would only have Jungle fowl!!!!

 

[snowbird]

Wynette, It is almost impossible to breed the Marans the way the oldtimers did. There is no where to go to get Marans that are similiar bred to the ones you have. Anyone can breed anyway you would like just stay away from the Brother-Sister.

A breeder that raises a lot of fowl in any one breed will most likely know more about the breed than any Judge .Because a person is a Judge does not make them a master breeder.

If a person has not bred a breed then the person will know very little about the breed.

I still say no one is helping the Marans breed by buying a few eggs or chicks and selling eggs all accross the USA to anyone that does not know enough to ask the Questions.

I can show you chicks that were hatched from six dozen eggs that are mostly culls. These were from breeders that are showing and doing a lot of winning.

I should of stayed away from this post as it bothers me more than I would like to admit.

 

[Wynette]

Don, this is surprising to me, as you've always said the same thing - that it's best to not bring in outside lines, breed the line you have, linebreeding is the best way to bring out the positives in your flock, etc. I thought you of all would appreciate the post, so it confuses me that you're bothered by it.

Ben has been breeding fowl for longer than I have been on the planet, and Marans I believe for 8+ years. Longer than most any of us. So, I would think he probably knows what he's doing...who knows? I don't personally know the man - have met him, but I do not know how many fowl he breeds a year and what his reasoning is behind what and how he does it. I was only providing some insight into ONE person's thoughts on breeding. Doens't mean it's right, doens't mean it's wrong. It's just one person's opinion.

What I have done, personally, is that I have duplicated my flock with another breeder several states away. This is someone I have faith in; we made decisions on our flocks together so that we always know what the other's flock is looking like, and we help each other with birds on occasion to help issues along. Then, every 4-5 years, we will swap a good cockerel. This way, we have the same line going, but this is a way to infuse "new blood" for vigor. That works for me - for us - might not work for you or someone else. Again, it's just food for thought.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Wynette, It is almost impossible to breed the Marans the way the oldtimers did. There is no where to go to get Marans that are similiar bred to the ones you have. Anyone can breed anyway you would like just stay away from the Brother-Sister.

A breeder that raises a lot of fowl in any one breed will most likely know more about the breed than any Judge .Because a person is a Judge does not make them a master breeder.

If a person has not bred a breed then the person will know very little about the breed.

I still say no one is helping the Marans breed by buying a few eggs or chicks and selling eggs all accross the USA to anyone that does not know enough to ask the Questions.

I can show you chicks that were hatched from six dozen eggs that are mostly culls. These were from breeders that are showing and doing a lot of winning.

I should of stayed away from this post as it bothers me more than I would like to admit.

One does not have to hatch thousands of eggs to develop a line or a good bird. I have seen the evidence of that with my own eyes. One DOES have to cull - HARD. On that part we agree. However, with Marans, we still have to pick our battles because we are still dealing with so many issues. The sad fact is, we will get no where with Marans if folks don't get out and show them - even if they are less than perfect - and we will get no where with Marans if folks don't breed them. Pass on the eggs, let the chips fall where they may. Marans are a work in progress. We will NEVER get to the perfect bird if we don't build, build, build. We also have to remember, many folks working seriously with Marans are also obsessed with egg colour which means sins that might not be forgiven in other breeds are tolerated (hopefully, for the moment) in Marans. They are MAKING huge progress building the birds and the egg colour in France but even there, the birds are still less than perfect. And France has many years on us building Marans.

I agree about staying away from this thread. It's not a fun place to be anymore. Far too much harsh judgement, criticism, and negativity. It is MUCH more fun working with Marans and their breeders in the real world quite frankly.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Good morning, folks! I popped in & have been catching up, and see that some of you who previously stated you wouldn't sell hatching eggs until your line is breeding truer have actually been doing so - kudos to you for sharing your hard work with others!!! So happy to see this!! More folks working on them to move them forward will make it happen much more quickly, IMO!!

The following is a quote from APA judge Ben Porter (requoted here with his permission) - this is good information to keep in mind, and I think speaks to the feelings of many of us who have been breeding the Marans for many years:

I am constantly amazed at people saying I need some new blood in my flock. As Rip [Stalvey, another APA judge] has said many times,the old master breeders almost never add new blood to their flocks. When they did it was always from a line that came from their stock in the hands of a breeder that they knew the importance knowing what was in a line. Inbreeding is the ONLY way to know for sure what is in the genetic make up of a line. Inbreeding IS the fastest way to fix traits. Inbreeding is also the fastest way to REMOVE traits from a line of birds. You have to cull hard an set up breeding pens with a eye for improvement. With out inbreeding we would not have all the different breeds an color varieties, we would only have Jungle fowl!!!!

This is EXACTLY how my mentors have been schooling me. When they bring in outside blood, they research it carefully and they don't contaminate their line with that blood until F2 has proven itself. Brother/sister may not be ideal (as one genuine Master Breeder tutored me) but it can reveal a multitude of problems fast and might have to be resorted to when one is developing "a line".

 

[pawtraitart]

This is EXACTLY how my mentors have been schooling me. When they bring in outside blood, they research it carefully and they don't contaminate their line with that blood until F2 has proven itself. Brother/sister may not be ideal (as one genuine Master Breeder tutored me) but it can reveal a multitude of problems fast and might have to be resorted to when one is developing "a line".

Breeding brother/sister is not the ideal way to move forward in a breeding program long term but it's extremely helpful when bringing in new birds. Brother/sister mating will quickly reveal the good, the bad, and the downright ugly super fast. At that point, one can make decisions on what needs to be added to that line to make corrections. You gotta start somewhere! I'd rather see all the cull potential issues right up front instead of having it pop up out of nowhere. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[Wynette]

Breeding brother/sister is not the ideal way to move forward in a breeding program long term but it's extremely helpful when bringing in new birds. Brother/sister mating will quickly reveal the good, the bad, and the downright ugly super fast. At that point, one can make decisions on what needs to be added to that line to make corrections. You gotta start somewhere! I'd rather see all the cull potential issues right up front instead of having it pop up out of nowhere. Just my opinion, of course.

Agreed.