Hen with sour crop, vent gleet AND worms - help

[friedandscrambled]

As I am new to BYC - apparently I had this on the wrong thread and was told to put it here. Thanks
Hi
Sorry this may be somewhat long - appreciate any advice
I have a 2+ year old hen that I noticed was smelling sour and had runny bottom. Looking at vent, it was red and swollen so I started to treat for vent gleet. Soaked in epsom salt, used lotrimin etc... Then next morning, I noticed her crop was squishy and she was a little lethargic, definitely NOT her style and when I picked her up, it appeared as though some liquid was coming out of her mouth. Great....so I started to treat for sour crop with monistat. I separated her from the rest of the flock to give her 12+ hours of no food and water only to find next morning what looked like one long round worm that had come out. UGH. So I got safeguard and treated her and the rest of the flock. She seemed a bit perkier this day so I gave her some water with ACV, small amounts at any given time and syringed a mix of yogurt, kaytee bird. Not much maybe 6ml of the syringe she took and then tried some egg yolk later in the day mixed with yogurt which she seemed to eat with pleasure. This morning, felt her crop and it was not as big as it had been so I thought OK maybe we are getting somewhere but while she wants to drink, she did not want food and I noticed she just would keep closing her eyes. Her comb is bright red, her vent while still enlarged is not as red due to all the soaks and manually cleaning out any stuck gunk but she is lethargic again today and her crop is swelling even though it is day 3 of monistat orally. She did poo a little bit later in afternoon where I could see some dead roundworms, otherwise liquid just comes out from her vent at times. I have puppy pads that I change continually. Tried phoning at least 3 veterinary practices and everyone is on vacation and no one knows much about birds. I am trying really hard to help this girl, I love her but I dont know what else to do. I am not sure if her crop is now pendulous (sp?) because she is a big eater and always seemed to have a big crop by end of day but never with any issues and always gone by morning but I am at my wits end. I have read a ton of posts here but any advice - help - guidance would be awesome as I dont know if I should withhold water and food again while still treating for the sour crop and vent gleet. She wants to drink liquid and I dont want her to dehydrate but she is just a balloon right now and when I put any pressure on it it seems as though liquid is trying to come up. I accidentally regurgitated her and got her upright fast enough not to have a problem but I dont want her to aspirate. again-any help....thanks in advance

 

[RoyalChick]

So sorry about your hen. I am dealing with a very similar situation so watching along to pick up advice.
I have started miconazole treatment and I am massaging several times a day. But it is just a big water balloon it seems.

 

[azygous]

I'll stick this link here so we can continue our discussion. https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...w-to-know-which-one-youre-dealing-with.73607/

One of the signs of a crop disorder is a crop that doesn't empty. If a crop is slow and only empties partially, it can cause the condition called stasis where the crop contents begin to ferment because they aren't moving. Sometimes this is caused by the crop hanging too low for the contents to empty.

On this diagram, if you locate the crop and follow it to the proventriculous, you'll see the "drain" isn't at the bottom, but somewhere in the middle. When a crop is poorly supported by chest muscles that may be flacid, a crop bra can often help such a hen by raising the crop so it drains more easily.

The only way, though, to be certain of a crop disorder is to check the crop first thing in the morning before the hen eats anything. The crop should be empty. If it's not, we have a problem.

 

[friedandscrambled]

So sorry about your hen. I am dealing with a very similar situation so watching along to pick up advice.
I have started miconazole treatment and I am massaging several times a day. But it is just a big water balloon it seems.

Are you withholding water and food? and sorry you are going through something similar, I do hope your bird gets better

 

[friedandscrambled]

I'll stick this link here so we can continue our discussion. https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...w-to-know-which-one-youre-dealing-with.73607/

One of the signs of a crop disorder is a crop that doesn't empty. If a crop is slow and only empties partially, it can cause the condition called stasis where the crop contents begin to ferment because they aren't moving. Sometimes this is caused by the crop hanging too low for the contents to empty. View attachment 3137095On this diagram, if you locate the crop and follow it to the proventriculous, you'll see the "drain" isn't at the bottom, but somewhere in the middle. When a crop is poorly supported by chest muscles that may be flacid, a crop bra can often help such a hen by raising the crop so it drains more easily.

The only way, though, to be certain of a crop disorder is to check the crop first thing in the morning before the hen eats anything. The crop should be empty. If it's not, we have a problem.

Well then---- WE HAVE A PROBLEM

 

[RoyalChick]

Are you withholding water and food? and sorry you are going through something similar, I do hope your bird gets better

I brought her into my hospital ward (which is in the coop) and withheld food but not water. The day before she ate a lot and I could see her crop ballooning.
I gave her coconut oil and grit and I massages about 4x a day.
The trouble is that it is just a big water balloon so I am not sure the massage and oil are helping.
The other times I have dealt with crop issues I have felt hard plugs of fibrous stuff and have managed to break it up. There is nothing to get my hands on in this situation if you see what I mean.
After 48 hours I have allowed her a bit of chick grower feed.
Sure enough it is all fermenting so I have started her on miconazole twice a day.
Today I am going to let her out. She will be happier out of the hospital and I am not sure my treatment is making a difference. If she is going to die from this I would rather she die happy.
I am continuing miconazole, coconut oil and massage but I won’t be able to do the coconut oil and massage as often when she is out and about.
On Wednesday I have to decide whether to give her the second dose of fenbendazole for roundworms - I am a bit worried about that.

 

[friedandscrambled]

Wow....you are in the same boat as me. I feel for you. My hen was so bulbous this morning and when I picked her up stuff started to come out so......I went with it and took a few breaks in between getting what appeared to be small leaf petals from weeds that grow on the ground, clover like and a blueberry, some cheesy looking stuff mixed in with brownish grey sour liquid. Thoroughly gross but her crop went down but still squishy and spongy. All i could really feel when massaging was gritty stuff. I tried to give her coconut oil, it would not come out of any syringe I had nicely, why I do not know as it was liquified so I put some in a small amount of warm water and she did drink it. How much coconut oil do you give at a time? Anyway, she is just on water and probiotics today so I can see what goes on with her crop and I will continue with the miconazole and epsom salt baths with a good bum clean for the gleet.

 

[RoyalChick]

Wow....you are in the same boat as me. I feel for you. My hen was so bulbous this morning and when I picked her up stuff started to come out so......I went with it and took a few breaks in between getting what appeared to be small leaf petals from weeds that grow on the ground, clover like and a blueberry, some cheesy looking stuff mixed in with brownish grey sour liquid. Thoroughly gross but her crop went down but still squishy and spongy. All i could really feel when massaging was gritty stuff. I tried to give her coconut oil, it would not come out of any syringe I had nicely, why I do not know as it was liquified so I put some in a small amount of warm water and she did drink it. How much coconut oil do you give at a time? Anyway, she is just on water and probiotics today so I can see what goes on with her crop and I will continue with the miconazole and epsom salt baths with a good bum clean for the gleet.

One tip on coconut oil - it becomes solid in the fridge or freezer so you can pop it down her like a pill.
Many of mine love it so they eat the little frozen pills before I hold their beaks open.
It then melts in their body heat and becomes liquid. By chilling it you don’t have any aspiration risk because it melts once it is in the esophagus.

 

[friedandscrambled]

How is your chicken? Mine, her crop was actually smaller this morning which was surprising as yesterday with water only it was so huge so I gave her coconut oil this morning, her miconazole and just tried to feed her small amount of egg yogurt and some soaked feed but she took one bite and decided NO. Dont know if I should just leave it or try to force feed her by syringe, your thoughts? She is passing stuff out of her system and she has not eating so I hope that means that things are starting to move a little again and that the wormer has done something as well. Just need to figure how to get some food into mine. Hope yours is doing better.

 

[RoyalChick]

How is your chicken? Mine, her crop was actually smaller this morning which was surprising as yesterday with water only it was so huge so I gave her coconut oil this morning, her miconazole and just tried to feed her small amount of egg yogurt and some soaked feed but she took one bite and decided NO. Dont know if I should just leave it or try to force feed her by syringe, your thoughts? She is passing stuff out of her system and she has not eating so I hope that means that things are starting to move a little again and that the wormer has done something as well. Just need to figure how to get some food into mine. Hope yours is doing better.

I am in a similar situation. Her crop was a tiny bit smaller this morning but ballooned out quite soon after.
Mine takes a few bites of mash and drinks a few sips. Her poo is completely liquid - so as you say at least liquid is moving through. I think maybe there are some more ‘bits’ in it than previously, but that might be wishful thinking on my part.
She went outside yesterday and seemed to be having fun scratching around. She ate a few leaves. I was in two minds about that because of her crop but I also don’t want her to be miserable. My plan is to let her out for the afternoon after she has had her miconazole and coconut oil and a few good massages.
I decided to put ACV in her water - in humans acetic acid makes miconazole more effective so I figured I would try.
I also put some sodium bicarbonate in her mash. It is commonly used in commercial feed so I figured it was safe. My thinking is that the bubbles from drinking the ACV water might help break stuff up.
There is documentation of soda breaking up blockages in people who eat too many fibrous plants so again I figured I would try it and see if it helped.
If you search in BYC for gizzard blockage you will see that some folk have used Coca Cola. I don’t dare do that because of the caffeine.
Here is hoping both our lovely ladies can turn this around.