Electric fence questions

[Matzwd]

I am in the process (finally!) of adding electric wires to a chainlink fence. I was originally going to use a solar-powered charger, but my fabulous hubby is running electric out to the coops as we speak. I am going to return the previously purchased solar charger and was thinking of getting the Parmak AC charger (either Mark 8 or Super Energizer 5). The specs on both indicate high-tensile wire, and I've already got poly wire run. Can I use one of these chargers with my poly?

My goal is to keep predators (raccoons, foxes, perhaps pesky squirrels will learn too) out. Should I be concerned about injuring my fence-jumping girls? They typically land on top of the five foot chain link first before continuing to the other side. I'm worried they could ground themselves out on the top of the chain link and step on the hot wire, which is about four inches further out, and cook themselves. I'm new to electric fence, so perhaps this is unlikely. Should I be concerned about this?

 

[3KillerBs]

and cook themselves.

An electric fence doesn't cook the animals who encounter it. It just shocks them -- causing a controlled level of pain to deter them from getting close to those wires again.

If your chickens get shocked that way it might teach them to stop jumping the fence.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

The Parmaks (as are most) are low impedance fence chargers, perfectly suitable for use with polywire. Having a great ground will be your biggest considerations, and i wonder about the length of fencing you are protecting. Both of those are sizeable chargers - but perhaps you have very large predators to consider (as I do, using a 30 mile charger in a grassy area to protect less than 1.5 miles of total electrified run)

Chargers of this nature pulse, rather than maintaining a steady charge - if your birds stand on both your existing fence and the new polywire at same time, they should get a sharp jolt - at which point they will jump free, almost uncontrollably. That's only a danger to your birds if they somehow get one foot trapped in the existing chain length fence, which is unlikely - and even then, its probably not going to be permanently damaging.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Should I be concerned about injuring my fence-jumping girls?

I agree, no, you should not be worried because of that pulse. The charge is not constant, which would be a danger. If it were constant they and you would not be able to let go. But they send a pulse through the hot wire about 50 times a minute. They turn loose as soon as that pulse is over, which is instantaneous. They will squawk and jump up. There is no telling which side they will come down on but they should learn pretty fast to stop flying up there.

Having a great ground will be your biggest considerations

I don't follow that. If you hook your ground wire directly to that chain link why wouldn't you have a great ground? I assume the hot wire is on insulators and isolated from the chain link by 4". Am I missing something?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I don't follow that. If you hook your ground wire directly to that chain link why wouldn't you have a great ground? I assume the hot wire is on insulators and isolated from the chain link by 4". Am I missing something?

She didn't specify hooking the ground lead to the chain link fence directly, and I both didn't want to assume, and do not know the condition and construction of the fence generally as to how well it maintains a circuit. If she follows the charger instructions, she'll be driving ground rods, then trusting that the fence will make the connection to the ground either via direct soil contact, through whatever concrete the fence posts are encased in, etc....

Yes, if she hooks the ground to the fence directly and securely, and its all tensioned galvanized steel or aluminum construction, she'll have no issues. If its the black or green plasti-coated/dipped fencing I'm now seeing in places, there will be problems.

 

[Matzwd]

An electric fence doesn't cook the animals who encounter it

I was being a bit dramatic here. I realize they wouldn't actually cook, but I also want to avoid mishaps that could kill them.

If your chickens get shocked that way it might teach them to stop jumping the fence.

That would be the fest case scenario by far!

and i wonder about the length of fencing you are protecting. Both of those are sizeable chargers - but perhaps you have very large predators to consider

uh-oh, am I planning on too strong of chargers? I am running a single line around the top and bottom of a 50' x 50' fence, so 400 linear feet total. We might later decide enclose about two acres in addition to this at a later time. Foxes are the main predator we're attempting to deter. The neighbor's dogs have proven to be an issue as well.

Chargers of this nature pulse, rather than maintaining a steady charge - if your birds stand on both your existing fence and the new polywire at same time, they should get a sharp jolt - at which point they will jump free, almost uncontrollably.

Perfect!

If it were constant they and you would not be able to let go.

Ok. That's kind of what I was picturing with a bird standing on top of the chain link and stepping onto the hot wire. I was imagining their toes wrapping the wire and not being able to release it. Glad that's not the case!

I don't follow that. If you hook your ground wire directly to that chain link why wouldn't you have a great ground? I assume the hot wire is on insulators and isolated from the chain link by 4". Am I missing something?

Believe it or not, I didn't think of that as was using grounding rods. I could do both though. The chain link is the metal type, no plastic coatings, and the posts are concreted in.

she'll be driving ground rods

She will be.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

OK, so the 50 mile charger is a lot more than you will need.

I'm using a 30 mile charger, and enclosing 4-5 acres, with enough charge to deter something a bit bigger than a fox.

I'm not aware of any problems arising from "too big" a charger, except that its a bigger bite of the wallet than needed. When you drop below 1J rated output, the deterrent factor with large critters drops pretty rapidly, but that's not an issue with either of the chargers you are considering. If the difference between the 20 and 30 mile charger is insignificant, I'd probably get the 30. There was a substantial difference between the 30 and 50 mile chargers in price.

and believe it or not, my fence will deter me. and my dogs. but my chickens will walk right across my lowest wire, which is charged. Tells me I'm still bleeding voltage somewhere. Oh, and its worked on the neighborhood's pack of coyote at least twice, the neighbor's boar hunting dogs (once), and some larger critter... Bird feathers and scaly feet are surprisingly good insulators.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Feathers are good insulators, scaly feet I don't think so. For something to get shocked the electric circuit has to be closed. I use electric netting where the soil is the ground and the horizontal strands are the hot wires, except the lowest horizontal wire. The bottom horizontal is not hot. My baby chicks can go through that netting without a problem until they are about 7 weeks old. They hop up off the ground and walk across the hot wires., squeezing through that hole The circuit is not closed as they are not touching the soil, which is my ground.

When my adults are standing on the soil and peck at something in the fence and their beak or wattles touch a hot wire, they squawk and jump back, then go about their business. They are not injured and learn to not peck in that area. If scaly feet were insulators they would not get shocked that way because the circuit would not have been completed. Watching this is what convinces me that scaly feet are not good insulators.

My voltage tester maxes out at 7,000 volts. I have at least that when it's hooked up and grass and weeds are not grounding out the netting. I don't even use my tester any more. When I put the netting back up after mowing the grass and weeds growing up into the netting I I test that I got the connections right by touching a hot wire. I can't tell the voltage but I can sure tell that it is hot.

On the safety of these devices. Any time you fool with electricity there is danger. That includes all the electric devices and lighting in your house that are not designed to pulse for safety. You do need to be careful with any of these devices, including these chargers. But the companies that make these chargers have lawyers on staff that look at liability issues. If they put out a device that killed a young kid by them accidentally touching it they'd go bankrupt from the lawsuits. It would make the news. Anybody that has had kids knows they are not going to avoid touching a hot fence because somebody tells them not to. They might avoid it after they touch it. If horses, goats, or other livestock were injured by touching these fences people would not use them. Think about that. If I were worried about it killing or injuring my chickens I would not use it and I don't think anyone else with livestock would either. Yet these things are standard to enclose livestock almost everywhere if you get into livestock country. And to stop predators. I do not lay awake at night worrying that one of my chickens, a neighbor's dog, or one of my grandkids will die or be injured if they touch the fence.

I have found three turtles trapped in the fence. They don't jump back when they get shocked. Two of those turtles walked away when I turned the current off and untangled them. It took them a bit to recover but they were gone when I came back. You could see them jerk every time the current pulsed but they walked way. The third died. I assume it had been in there many hours. I found a dead snake in that netting. It got tangled and could not get away between pulses. I found a possum tangled in the netting one time. Possum are really slow. It got tangled up and could not get loose. The electricity is not what killed that possum or any of the babies in her pouch. You do need to treat knives, barbed wire, gasoline, and electricity with respect, any of them can be dangerous. But don't fear them. In my opinion things are a lot less likely to get tangled in an electric fence than they are in my netting.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I put their scaly feet as insulators similar to my thumbnail. When I test the fence by almost touching it with a fingernail, the sensation is different than toughing it with the back of my hand. It ain't spectacular - but in combination with their feathers, yeah, they don't get near the jolt out of it i do. Thankfully, I don't have to protect them from other ground dwelling dinosaurs.

 

[Matzwd]

@U_Stormcrow Thank you for the output information and pointing out what is necessary for my purposes. This helps a lot!