Discussing details of mottled chicken genetics

[MysteryChicken]

The video was a little silly.
I can try to recover the photos, there were more then that.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Should I breed to Sumatra, & Buff Orpington too? Or just the New Hampshire?

 

[NatJ]

Should I breed to Sumatra, & Buff Orpington too? Or just the New Hampshire?

Those could be good choices too.

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

That's fine, if you want to try. I believe my birds carry a Dominant mottling gene. Not the recessive.

Gonna test breed Squeakers to my silkie hens, to see if I can replicate BigFoot.

Also gonna Breed Phoenix (OEGB) to the D'uccle hen again to see if I can get a Female version of Squeakers.

I accidentally sold a OEGB/D'uccle cross to someone who wanted silkies, or silkie crosses. She didn't seem to mind though, cuz she's a friend. It was during the summer.

@MysteryChicken
We're trying to figure out which aspects of coloring come from the mottling gene, and which from other genes. Also, MysteryChicken said the mottling gene has apparently been behaving like a dominant gene, which is either confusing or fascinating to me

But we really were getting off-topic for the thread we were in, so we'll try to move it over here.

I have a counterproposal- it’s not mottling at all. Though in looks it’s amazingly close to mottling, I believe it’s actually leakage.

I’ve seen this pattern before. I have to admit, I’m a bit obsessed with chicken genetics, more specifically the genetics of mixed breeds. I love their unique patterns. I used to look through threads where people just shared pictures of their mixes, and I still do sometimes. Usually it doesn’t look as close to mottling as this, but I’ve seen a few that look very close to your roosters.

Here are some examples (not my pictures)-

These are pictures of Easter egger roosters from Google.

Various pictures of American game roosters off the internet.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...dsomest-rooster-contest.1173088/post-20610347
Another EE rooster, owned by a member on here.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/wyandotte-10-weeks-sexing.1389432/#post-22811052
Red sex link/cinnamon queen cockerel (using a silver laced wyandotte in the cross) also owned by a member here.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/rhode-island-red.1287809/
Red sex link rooster owned by a member.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/show-off-your-roosters.1135004/post-19547448
Mixed breed rooster owned by a member.

Notice that all these are roosters, and all have the silver gene. I have seen gold roosters with this pattern- they have red spots instead of silver.

If it really is dominant mottling, then you should be able to get roosters with white spots who have two copies of the gold gene, and both silver and gold hens with white spots.

Oh, and I think @nicalandia knows a lot about mottling, if they want to join the discussion.

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

I have a counterproposal- it’s not mottling at all. Though in looks it’s amazingly close to mottling, I believe it’s actually leakage.

I’ve seen this pattern before. I have to admit, I’m a bit obsessed with chicken genetics, more specifically the genetics of mixed breeds. I love their unique patterns. I used to look through threads where people just shared pictures of their mixes, and I still do sometimes. Usually it doesn’t look as close to mottling as this, but I’ve seen a few that look very close to your roosters.

Here are some examples (not my pictures)-

View attachment 2409941View attachment 2409942
These are pictures of Easter egger roosters from Google.

View attachment 2409930View attachment 2409931View attachment 2409932View attachment 2409933View attachment 2409935View attachment 2409936View attachment 2409937
Various pictures of American game roosters off the internet.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...dsomest-rooster-contest.1173088/post-20610347
Another EE rooster, owned by a member on here.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/wyandotte-10-weeks-sexing.1389432/#post-22811052
Red sex link/cinnamon queen cockerel (using a silver laced wyandotte in the cross) also owned by a member here.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/rhode-island-red.1287809/
Red sex link rooster owned by a member.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/show-off-your-roosters.1135004/post-19547448
Mixed breed rooster owned by a member.

Notice that all these are roosters, and all have the silver gene. I have seen gold roosters with this pattern- they have red spots instead of silver.

If it really is dominant mottling, then you should be able to get roosters with white spots who have two copies of the gold gene, and both silver and gold hens with white spots.

Oh, and I think @nicalandia knows a lot about mottling, if they want to join the discussion.

Some more examples-

https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...r-iowa-blue-rooster-ia.1338813/#post-21939741

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/unknown-rooster-breed.1203326/#post-19074485

Iow blue from this thread:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/chicken-breed-focus-iowa-blue.986073/

A couple Iowa blues from here:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/iowa-blues-breed-thread-and-discussion.469317/.

Many mosaic roosters have this coloration. However, all the mosaic hens I’ve seen are obviously not mottled
https://www.goldfeatherfarms.com/exotic-poultry-chicks-and-hatching-eggs/product/70-mosaics.

 

[MysteryChicken]

I got my bag of feathers, will take pictures soon.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Those could be good choices too.

Thanks, I thought so too.

 

[MysteryChicken]

I have a counterproposal- it’s not mottling at all. Though in looks it’s amazingly close to mottling, I believe it’s actually leakage.

I’ve seen this pattern before. I have to admit, I’m a bit obsessed with chicken genetics, more specifically the genetics of mixed breeds. I love their unique patterns. I used to look through threads where people just shared pictures of their mixes, and I still do sometimes. Usually it doesn’t look as close to mottling as this, but I’ve seen a few that look very close to your roosters.

Here are some examples (not my pictures)-

View attachment 2409941View attachment 2409942
These are pictures of Easter egger roosters from Google.

View attachment 2409930View attachment 2409931View attachment 2409932View attachment 2409933View attachment 2409935View attachment 2409936View attachment 2409937
Various pictures of American game roosters off the internet.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...dsomest-rooster-contest.1173088/post-20610347
Another EE rooster, owned by a member on here.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/wyandotte-10-weeks-sexing.1389432/#post-22811052
Red sex link/cinnamon queen cockerel (using a silver laced wyandotte in the cross) also owned by a member here.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/rhode-island-red.1287809/
Red sex link rooster owned by a member.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/show-off-your-roosters.1135004/post-19547448
Mixed breed rooster owned by a member.

Notice that all these are roosters, and all have the silver gene. I have seen gold roosters with this pattern- they have red spots instead of silver.

If it really is dominant mottling, then you should be able to get roosters with white spots who have two copies of the gold gene, and both silver and gold hens with white spots.

Oh, and I think @nicalandia knows a lot about mottling, if they want to join the discussion.

My sister has a Golden Laced Sebright I can cross with for gold offspring.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Comparison Photos. Bigfoot's feathers are below the other bird's.

Black Mottling from Squeakers, Bigfoot's Father.

Porcelain D'uccle

Mille Fleur D'uccle

Blue Exchequer Japanese Bantam before molt. She has more white on her feathers now.

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

A lot of my information on mottling comes from this paper:

"The Mottling Gene, the Basis of Six Plumage Color Patterns in the Domestic Fowl"
by R.G. Somes, published 1979
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119355154
(There's a link on that page to download the whole .pdf)

That paper established that "mottling" (white tip on black feather) and "Mille Fleur" (white tip, black band, gold feather) and some others are indeed caused by the same recessive mottling gene. They discuss how the gene works, and they also crossed varieties to create a silver-mottled bird (similar to Millie Fleur or Speckled Sussex, but with silver instead of the gold.) They have various photos and diagrams in the paper.

One thing I found particularly interesting is how they say the mottling gene works: it makes a white tip on the feather, then some black, then the rest of the feather is colored according to whatever other genes the chicken has--black for Mottled Ancona, gold for Mille Fleur, etc. The black part can be affected by any genes that modify black (chocolate, blue, Dominant White, etc.)

The breeds they were studying all had mottling on black, or mottling on a gold base, so they also created a silver-mottled bird: white feather tip, black band, white on the rest of the feather.

I’m not sure if you’re aware of it, but there’s a variety of d’uccle that is silver and mottled (called silver mille fleur or just silver) https://www.google.com/search?q=silver+d'uccle&client=safari&hl=en-us&prmd=isnv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwii7Im_0YDtAhWSrp4KHdy_CaIQ_AUoAXoECCEQAQ&biw=375&bih=553.