Developing My Own Breed Of Large Gamefowl For Free Range Survival (Junglefowl x Liege)

[Florida Bullfrog]

Also, giardia would explain why my milk cow died of the same symptoms. A gradual waisting away as if the digestive track wasn’t absorbing what was ate. Almost any animal can get it.

 

[SheaLoner]

Can you treat a water source for it? I know in wells they would shock them with chlorine. But that makes it undrinkable for a while.

 

[Molpet]

Also, giardia would explain why my milk cow died of the same symptoms. A gradual waisting away as if the digestive track wasn’t absorbing what was ate. Almost any animal can get it.

How similar are the symptoms to botulism? I know someone who thinks they keep getting botulism.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

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Can you treat a water source for it? I know in wells they would shock them with chlorine. But that makes it undrinkable for a while.

I have a chlorine injection system and iron filter for my well water, but in my front yard I have a 3/5 acre pond that the chickens drink from. I also have many low spots in my yard where water pools during wet weather. My farm is the tip of a pine ridge that juts out into swampland that drains into the Suwannee river. Its a natural giardia trap and there isn’t really anything I can do to eradicate it from the environment. I have attempted to introduce freshwater clams and mussels into my pond to provide natural filtration, but the bottom of the pond isn’t correct for the mollusks’ liking and so far they haven taken. A sufficient amount of of freshwater clams can filter the entirety of the pond twice a week. I do not know if the clams will filter pathogens, but I figure that much water flow would help. Many of the nasty parasites in woods water like still water like my pond has. I haven’t thought about giardia specifically but we also have a lot of the brain eating amoebas. I am probably immune to them (many southerners seem to be), but I am scared of them enough I won’t swim in my pond until I figure out how to get the water circulating naturally.

 

[NatJ]

My hypothesis is that giardia is the mystery pathogen that gets a percentage of my free rangers sick and to the point of death as soon as they’re turned out to free range, while the survivors either have little effect from it or (in the case of most) can live with it with reduced mass.

That's an interesting possibility. The way you state it there, it fits nicely with what you have observed.

But the internal worms and the lack of grit also sounded quite plausible when you explained them, and I think there was a possibly-toxic plant as well.

Maybe you have more than one thing causing problems? When you first turn chickens out to free range, they are suddenly exposed to several of these factors at the same time.

...I further speculate that ivermectin clears [giardia] up, and that the reason my birds responded so well to ivermectin in terms of weight gain is because the parasite was still present in the survivors and interfering with the absorption of nutrients...

Would this also explain the poor condition in the birds in pens, who improved after you treated them with ivermectin? Or is it more likely that they had some kind of internal worms?

Several that didn’t have breast meat now have breast tissue. I especially noticed this on some cooped Fayoumi chicks. Even though they had access to an always full feeder then had nothing on their breasts until I wormed them.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

How similar are the symptoms to botulism? I know someone who thinks they keep getting botulism.

Very similar towards the end, and botulism had been a primary suspect of mine for a while. But botulism is more heavy on the neurological symptoms. I have had a few chickens exhibit stumbling type symptoms as seen in Mareks or botulism but it could all be consistent with the last stages of an artificial starvation from cocci or giardia. The emaciation seems to be a more common symptom than drunkedness. The cow wasted away in spite of eating plenty until she refused to stand and I put her down. The chickens also emaciate then refuse to stand as if weak. I think their stumbling is more related to the lack of energy.

Its also all consistent with poisoning from salt bush, which I’ve talked about before. I have seen chickens eat the salt bush then exhibit the symptoms. But that also coincides with free ranging for the first time. Most recently when I had free rangers exhibit symptoms after I observed them eat salt bush I administered ivermectin and they recovered. Eating the salt bush could be an instinctual attempt at self-medication.

What I’m keying in on is the apparent connection between ivermectin and recovery and the major weight gain nearly all of my chickens exhibited when ivermectin was deployed. It was almost a silver bullet. If it was some sort of intestinal worm, I would think more time would be needed for a new free ranger to die from it. Same with Mareks. Mareks needs at least a couple of weeks to incubate, but I’ve had new chickens from other farms show symptoms in a day and be dead within a week.

Because I stubbornly refuse to take a bird in for a necropsy, lest they find antibodies for something on their kill list that the chicken defeated, I’m left playing wackamole with with cause and effect until I get it figured out. Here’s the observations I’m working with:

1. The condition generally only afflicts birds on their first couple weeks of free range. If they make it during that period fine, they’ll never develop the condition.

2. The condition can afflict new birds to the farm within their first 24 hours of being set to free range.

3. The condition does not appear in coops unless green lawn clipping are introduced. Mixing birds between coops or from free range does not trigger it. I have not introduced it to coops from pond water, albeit I dip the pond water from deep.

4. The administering of Corid during early symptoms seems to temporarily clear it up, but does not stop it from reoccurring.

5. Ivermectin seems to clear it up, although I lost 2 birds with severe emaciation even after giving them ivermectin. Most other birds recovered and even birds I didn’t realize were thin had a dramatic weight gain after being given ivermectin.

6. I have not been giving my birds proper grit prior to them being turned out to free range.

7. There are two major poisonous plants common on my farm; dog fennel and salt bush. Healthy birds eat the dog fennel regularly. A few fresh free rangers eat the salt bush and have developed symptoms shortly after. Yet I’m also noted birds developing symptoms shortly after drinking from mud puddles.

Here’s where my mind is:

1. I don’t think its a communicable disease, or else it should be spreading across the coops and between the coop and free range flocks.

2. It seems to be digestive in nature, likely due to the bird ingesting something which in turn causes the digestive system to not work right.

3. Corid has a minor effect, ivermectin has a major effect, suggesting a parasite subsetible to those drugs. It also needs to be something both a cow and a chicken can get, and something they can get fast.

4. If effects many chickens mildly or not at all. Its a crap shoot when turned out which ones will or will not get it.

I’m left with:

1. Coccidiosis.

2. Botulism.

3. More recently to the list, giardia.

4. Poisoning from a plant or insect.

5. Lack of gizzard stones leading to impaction and starvation, with no connection to the cow suffering a similar fate.

6. Any number of woods pathogens that wouldn’t be commonly known in poultry circles but common in my part of Florida.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

That's an interesting possibility. The way you state it there, it fits nicely with what you have observed.

But the internal worms and the lack of grit also sounded quite plausible when you explained them, and I think there was a possibly-toxic plant as well.

Maybe you have more than one thing causing problems? When you first turn chickens out to free range, they are suddenly exposed to several of these factors at the same time.



Would this also explain the poor condition in the birds in pens, who improved after you treated them with ivermectin? Or is it more likely that they had some kind of internal worms?

The fayoumi would have been exposed to pond water and green grass clippings, and could have obtained it then. As could be true in any of the coop birds who put on weight after ivermectin was given.

And yes, it could simply be a free range gauntlet in a harsh habitat that is culling out all but the strongest.

 

[troyer]

The fayoumi would have been exposed to pond water and green grass clippings, and could have obtained it then. As could be true in any of the coop birds who put on weight after ivermectin was given.

And yes, it could simply be a free range gauntlet in a harsh habitat that is culling out all but the strongest.

I appreciate your approach to developing the ultimate free range fowl for your area.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Some other things I should add to observations:

- Birds which go directly from coop to another farm don’t develop it. I have divided broods where I’ve sent some chicks off farm and turned others out to free range on my farm. The chicks that remain on my farm may wipe out or have a low survival rate on free range, while the chicks on the other farms often have 100% survival rates on free range, further reinforcing that the problem is somewhere in my environment.

- My farm is a former commercial blueberry operation. I do not use chemicals, but the previous owner heavily used various pesticides, fungicides, fertilizers, and other chemicals. Many of those items were left exposed when I took the farm over. I filed away many of the chemicals left behind, but there is a large area of junk behind my barns that I never cleaned up in the several years I’ve been there. I have considered that somewhere within reach is a chemical they are finding and ingesting.

- I have more millipedes here than anywhere else I’ve seen. I often find them under waterers and feeders. I’ve considered that perhaps they are toxic and some chickens eat them. But if so that should effect coop birds. I have noted that my chickens will reject eating some groups of maggots. I know maggots can carry the botulism toxins.

 

[AGeese]

As far as the stumbling are you seeing walking around a direct path to get to from point A to point B? or any backwards walking?