Developing My Own Breed Of Large Gamefowl For Free Range Survival (Junglefowl x Liege)

[NatJ]

Currant tomatoes? These days they’re marketed as “Everglades tomatoes.” They’re a wild tomato from south Florida. Growing up we called them “currants.”

Oh, very different plant! Yes, yours would have trouble with cold weather. I think of them as a kind of tomato, so it didn't occur to me that someone might call them "currants," any more than I would call other tomatoes "cherries" or "grapes."

I was talking about the woody bush things that grow well in cold climates, and make red berries (redcurrants) or sometimes other colors (whitecurrants, blackcurents). It looks like they're in genus Ribes.

 

[I Like Turkeys]

I just went back and read through the entire thread and I am thoroughly impressed. I was slightly confused and shocked when I first read you say Indo may be killing other males, but given he decided to go after chicks, it makes a lot more sense. His name fits. I know Azog is more predatory or meat-hungry than him; has he ever been around weak chicks and culled them as well?

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

I just went back and read through the entire thread and I am thoroughly impressed. I was slightly confused and shocked when I first read you say Indo may be killing other males, but given he decided to go after chicks, it makes a lot more sense. His name fits. I know Azog is more predatory or meat-hungry than him; has he ever been around weak chicks and culled them as well?

Azog has never been around chicks to my recollection. I have several chicks on free range but Azog has been cooped for as long as the chicks have been out.

Indo himself has mellowed out on eating chicks. I offered him a chick several days ago and he refused it.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

All seems well. I lost my scales (possibly buried in the deep litter of my largest coop) so I cannot weigh Azog. His limp is mostly gone and he’s acting vigorous. He appears to my eyes to be growing in height. He still has plenty of meat on his breasts. I am more optimistic that whatever the issue is, he is going to make it. I’ve been feeding him high protein, meat-based, treats once or twice a day.

Indo shows no sign of infection from whatever tried to catch him several days ago. I think he too will be fine.

The lowest it got here was 17F, which was this morning. The young chicks I started on the ground a few weeks ago are fine. I haven’t lost one. I added an IR lamp to their setup just before the temperature fall. They’re apparently toasty enough that they’ll forage through the night. First pic is around 9pm, second is them feeding around 1am when the temps were around 20F.

Now this next update I consider to be good news, even though it pertains to substantial losses. I had another batch older chicks that I had started in my tall brooder and I then moved to the ground when I introduced the above younger chicks out of the incubator.

There were 11 of these older chicks, around 5 from Hei Hei to an American hen (so 50% Crackers) and 6 that were 3/4 Cracker. I toe punched them all and learned weeks later I misidentified one chick and was content to leave it marked as is.

I lost 5 of those 11 over the last two days during the cold nights. They are free ranging with access to a coop with insulated floors but no heat.

4 of the lost chicks were toe marked as 1/2 Crackers, 1 was toe marked as a 3/4 Cracker. I find it significant that the vast majority of the losses is from one set of parents while the chicks from another set seems to be doing fine. Hei Hei is of course out of the equation anyhow, but I wouldn’t likely try that pairing again if I could.

So I am seeing exactly why single pair matings and subsequent permanent markings of chicks is important. I may find certain parents consistently produce survivors while others produce duds and can taylor future breedings accordingly.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Oh, very different plant! Yes, yours would have trouble with cold weather. I think of them as a kind of tomato, so it didn't occur to me that someone might call them "currants," any more than I would call other tomatoes "cherries" or "grapes."

I was talking about the woody bush things that grow well in cold climates, and make red berries (redcurrants) or sometimes other colors (whitecurrants, blackcurents). It looks like they're in genus Ribes.

Oh check this out! My bigger currant tomatoes died in the greenhouse setup. I’m not really surprised, I offered no supplemental heat to them. However, the many seedlings coming up survived just fine. I can only surmise it was because they were low to the compost flooring which was putting out enough heat to protect them. If the rest of our winter keeps our freezes in the high 20s, I bet they’ll live all winter in the setup.

 

[drangle]

Interesting that the big ones died. I know if you plant winter wheat too early and it get bigs frost will kill it while later seedlings they are small survive. Maybe have something. To do with surface area

 

[drangle]

Sorry for the poor English is that last post. Auto type fail. How are the Fayoumis doing?

 

[raingarden]

We have a wildish tomato like that. The fruit are about the diameter of a nickle. They only survive where there is something to climb up on to keep them off the ground. I doubt that the chickens get any because the more agile birds, rodents and those pesky humans take them as they mature.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

We have a wildish tomato like that. The fruit are about the diameter of a nickle. They only survive where there is something to climb up on to keep them off the ground. I doubt that the chickens get any because the more agile birds, rodents and those pesky humans take them as they mature.

This is what we have:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solanum_pimpinellifolium

They grow wild in south Florida. It is unknown whether they’re natural here or whether the Spaniards brought them from other parts of their empire.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Alright chicken friends, start talking to be about a breeding plan for Azog and Indo in the Spring. I have some great genetics lined up from a member here (who wishes to remain unnamed at the time, but you know who you are), but that won’t come to fruition or bear fruit for some time (1-2 years) because I will have to hatch the eggs and rear the chicks.

So in the mean time, I need some ideas how to breed Azog, Indo, and Indo’s sister this coming spring. To reiterate what I have in my genetic inventory:

Indo is half-black aseel, half-Liege. The same is true of Indo’s sister. Both birds have come out to be medium-large chickens in weight but not the giants I hoped for. Average sized frames. Both are voracious foragers. Indo’s sister forages at night at odd hours. I like those traits but wish both to be larger with Indo especially having larger wings.

Azog is 3/4 Liege 1/4 aseel, the product of Indo being line back to his Liege parentage. So Azog can be considered the product of 1 generation of line breeding, although because I flock bred the aseel over the Liege, Indo may have bred his aunt instead of his mother to produce Azog. Azog is large, voracious, and has long wings. I think he’ll end up around the size of a pure Liege rooster and will be impressive. I believe he will end up being my ideal rooster, and I would want to create many more of him.

Azog has a full brother sent off farm where he is doing well. He will likely be bred to blueface hens that are half the same aseel that produced Indo. I will have access to eggs and offspring later but for now the brother is out of the equation.

My Liege are all gone. 2 to sickness, 1 to a predator.

The aseel is gone, sent off farm to a game farm where he met his demise when he got into a blueface pen.

I have a gorgeous pullet that is half blueface, half the original aseel.

So I have Indo, his sister (who really needs a name BTW), Azog, and this half-aseel American hen. That’s all I have that has the foundational aseel or Liege blood in it.

I think a third unrelated bloodline is needed. The first and second generation aseel-Liege crosses didn’t produce but a couple of survivors per several dozen chicks. They need some outside blood to overcome any inbreeding depression that was in the two foundational lines.

I’m checking into some Malay pullets now that might be a good one time cross with both Azog and Indo. I’m also looking for a Malay or similar oriental stag for a 1 time cross to Indo’s sister. I would then line breed Indo and Azog to their daughters, granddaughters, and great granddaughters from that cross, then cross the two groups, except that on the Indo side if I produce an Azog-like stag I’d consider switching to him, because I want birds more like Azog than Indo. I basically want a race of Azogs.

Alternatively, I could add a third line on one side by breeding Indo to the American aseel hen and breeding Azog back to Indo’s sister. Or breed Indo to that American aseel hen and then give the daughters to Azog to line breed.

Thoughts? I want to keep the birds as close to Azog as possible but also want the benefit of one more bloodline.

I could also obtain more Liege and try to make hens for Azog that are only half sisters. But I worry about the same vigor problems. Its easy to make 2 dozen Indo x Liege chicks. Hard to get them to survive free range.