Developing My Own Breed Of Large Gamefowl For Free Range Survival (Junglefowl x Liege)

[Florida Bullfrog]

Its also possible that Indo did mischief with the two stags, although I never found the bodies and unless he killed and ate them in some hidden spot I suspect I would have found the carcasses had Indo done it and it would have looked like a hawk.

I have suspected Indo of killing and eating small stags where I’ve found the bodies but never caught him doing the killing, so I can’t rule out the hawk did the killing and Indo scavenged what was left. I am only suspicious of Indo because its overwhelmingly small stags that get wacked while he’s on free range and pullets grow out unmolested. Its not impossible that stags make themselves easier prey for the hawk somehow but previously I’ve found that pullets get weeded out by predators faster than stags do, save from bald eagles which seem to target bull stags.

 

[Bigtom Turkey]

What do you think makes Indo so ferocious? I have not seen that kind of carnivore type of behavior in my birds.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

What do you think makes Indo so ferocious? I have not seen that kind of carnivore type of behavior in my birds.

I was speaking to someone a couple of weeks ago who is very knowledgeable about Saipan junglefowl, which were feral orientals from the island of Saipan that had a strong carnivorous streak. So strong that eventually Saipan’s local government put a bounty out on them to stop them from eating the island’s small wildlife.

Apparently Saipan was a multi-cultural hub for several centuries and many major powers in East Asia have had presences there, which means different people groups brought their various oriental gamefowl with them. Malay, Thai, O Shamo, ect. Those birds got all cross bred in feral conditions and the Saipan junglefowl is what natural selection ended up with. The theory is that the Saipans represent a rough recreation of the first oriental gamefowl from which the various existent breeds contain part of the DNA of. Mix them together and its like putting together pieces of a puzzle. The carnivorous bent may be a trait of the original orientals that genetic drift and human selection has modified to varying degrees across Asia.

The thought of this person is that the crossing of the aseel with the Liege (which has Malay in the background plus anything other birds of oriental decent Greenfire may have added to the genes) may have activated in Indo a similar set of genes as what happened with the Saipans, with the implication being that results may be similar when crossing various kinds of orientals for a few generations.

In other words, the theory is that mutt orientals are more likely to be carnivores.

 

[Bigtom Turkey]

Hmm, I was always under the assumption that it was the free-range environment. But good to know nonetheless.

 

[Studabird]

Yeah I see a lot of people going completely backwards or trying to create something that already exists.

Coming to this late but I have a been crossing a my RIR with Cubalaya Rooster and they are not afraid of anything, I keep only Cubalaya roosters because they seem to be very protective of my layers and I am trying to get a self-sustaining flock. By self sustaining a wide enough breeding pool that I don't have to worry about genetic diversity and I get enough baby chicks every year to replace the ones I eat or die. No trying to have them forage on their own I don't have enough land for that. I also had a Brahma Cubalaya cross rooster that is big and beautiful but he is at the bottom of the pecking order not anywhere near as assertive as I had hoped. If he does not get more assertive by spring he will be Dinner.

 

[troyer]

My brother infused Sumatra into one of his lines. Ironically, the pure Sumatras all got predator caught, while the crosses have done well. My observation is that they weren’t more predator resistant than my Crackers, but would be a good choice for someone starting to make their own survival crosses from scratch.

I'm not surprised that the pure Sumatra didn't survive very long. In my experience the show lines have had some of their instinct bred out of them, not necessarily because someone tried to, but simply because they weren't allowed to be predator savvy due to being overly protected in pens. I also am not surprised that the crosses are doing well.
There used to be a feral population several miles from where I currantly live. They were a combination of a Sumatra hen being bred to a largefowl Old English game rooster and then those offspring were bred to a wheaten Cubalaya rooster and turned loose to fend for them selves. The original Sumatra hen had been bred to the Cubalaya rooster along with her offspring.
They were on an abandoned homestead and were never fed by humans, they had to completely fend for themselves, this is in southern Michigan.
After ten years of being feral they normalized into a very consistent type and temperament, in appearance being a pleasant combination of the darker Sumatra faces, pearl based leg color and dark silvers. The chicks all displayed the chipmunk striping being a bit darker than regular silver duckwing. In temperament cautious, but not wildly crazy afraid of people, probably the Cubalaya showing up in temperament. Type tended more toward the largefowl Old English build with a tendency toward good full tails in the hens as well as the cocks. In the mature cocks the sickle feather tips would often just barely touch the ground in a normal foraging walk. Both cocks and hens were flew with ease. They were beautiful birds and completely self reliant.
The property sold several years ago and a lot of effort was made to eradicate them whether by poison or shooting. As far as I know they were successful in doing so.
I thought it was interesting to note that the ones toward the last of being killed became surprisingly pheasant-like in their actions, their downfall being they liked roosting in the buildings. Which makes sense because that's what they did for about 15 years, and that being selectively bred into them by nature being that heavy owl predation took a toll on them during winter.

 

[AGeese]

I was gonna say, as far as Meyer hatchery Sumatras, theirs are listed as "Forager: No"

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Azog has lost 3 oz since his last posted weight. Significant considering he was gaining 1.4oz a day. He is now around 5lb 9oz.

I will hold onto some hope that the limp and the weight loss are coincidental and factor in that he is molting severely. But I didn’t like the texture of his feathers when I held him tonight. The Americans I lost last year had an abnormally dry feeling to their wing feathers as their sickness progressed and he had that feeling tonight. He’s still thick though. He’s hardly emaciated (yet).

Would it be correct to surmise that if this is Marek’s and its making him lose weight, I would likely expect to see tumors in his digestive system were he to die and I look inside?

 

[I Like Turkeys]

Apologies because I know nothing about mareks, but given Indo and Azog both have carnivorous traits, do you intend to breed that forward? It sounds interesting, and they seem capable of protection, but Indo potentially killing and eating younger males sounds worrying. do you intend to keep and breed forward birds with that trait?

 

[AGeese]

I read if they were vaxed at the hatchery then they won't develop tumors. I'm wondering myself. According to this page: https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/ps044