Developing My Own Breed Of Large Gamefowl For Free Range Survival (Junglefowl x Liege)

[Florida Bullfrog]

Those Blue hens are Liege Fighters!?

Wow! They are eye candy!!

I have absolutely no idea how they would go with wild-type Jungle Fowl though!

Yes. I think I have some more pics I saved from yesterday. I have three, they’re black, black with golden hackles, and dark grey.

My brother bought a stag and a pullet off of the same farm when he picked up my birds for me and his stag is impressive. He was able to see the adult flock and he said they were all amazing looking birds.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Here's all three of them. I observed them for a little while this evening and they seem well.

They take deep cover when a hawk attacks. A hawk made a run at some JF bitties this evening and the Liege hid deep in cover. The grey one with the green bands went deep in the palmettos with the chicks.

The black and grey pullets seem to enjoy being in proximity to me. The one with the gold hackles doesn't like me. All three will bite hard when handled (but are otherwise calm when picked up). One of them like to walk behind me and peck my right leg but I can never tell which one it is when I turn around. Its either the grey one or the black one.

 

[Patriot1672]

I believe that’s a selling point for people cashing in on a bird that looks tough but can’t back it up. I’d have to see that consistently to believe it. I have numerous hens and one in particular that seems to enjoy fighting off hawks. I can’t allow roosters to run loose since they’re gamefowl so they don’t get the chance.
Good luck with your project.

Agreed, I have a couple game/ golden comet hen crosses and they may bowe up at my shorter pure game hens but they always end up running shortly after they start kicking. I believe the gamefowl genes entail a mindset that is not to be crossed with family birds if you’re looking for a survival bird.

 

[roosterhavoc]

Agreed, I have a couple game/ golden comet hen crosses and they may bowe up at my shorter pure game hens but they always end up running shortly after they start kicking. I believe the gamefowl genes entail a mindset that is not to be crossed with family birds if you’re looking for a survival bird.

Yeah I see a lot of people going completely backwards or trying to create something that already exists.

 

[BoogieWight]

I'm not trying to hurt no feelings, but I think some of yall are missing the point. It is beneficial to have some "fire/game" or whatever word you choose. However, a bird that doesn't have a brain that will tell it to quit is not useful longterm as a freerange bird. What use can be found in a dead rooster that tried to walk down a coon that couldn't catch it or the hens in the first place? How is it beneficial for one rooster to set on top of another rooster that is trying to show submissiveness and shuffle him into a corpse? The reason that you rarely see an aggressive social bird in the wild is because its not ideal unless you are huge in the first place (think cassowary at the smallest). I think gamefowl are hands down the best example of success when it comes to domestication. Humans to a wild species and literally made it better in almost every way, and not to mention we achieved that in a range from the thai to a o-shamo. That being said, the gift they have in the pit is the one thing that makes their use as a freerange chicken for use in a large flock a problem. I've spent years working on a large (40+) freerange flock that only require minimal feed. Try that with real deal gamebirds and your gonna get upset, also your ROI is gonna be complete garbage.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

I'm not trying to hurt no feelings, but I think some of yall are missing the point. It is beneficial to have some "fire/game" or whatever word you choose. However, a bird that doesn't have a brain that will tell it to quit is not useful longterm as a freerange bird. What use can be found in a dead rooster that tried to walk down a coon that couldn't catch it or the hens in the first place? How is it beneficial for one rooster to set on top of another rooster that is trying to show submissiveness and shuffle him into a corpse? The reason that you rarely see an aggressive social bird in the wild is because its not ideal unless you are huge in the first place (think cassowary at the smallest). I think gamefowl are hands down the best example of success when it comes to domestication. Humans to a wild species and literally made it better in almost every way, and not to mention we achieved that in a range from the thai to a o-shamo. That being said, the gift they have in the pit is the one thing that makes their use as a freerange chicken for use in a large flock a problem. I've spent years working on a large (40+) freerange flock that only require minimal feed. Try that with real deal gamebirds and your gonna get upset, also your ROI is gonna be complete garbage.

Agreed. One needs multiple roosters in a free range flock. If you have a high-grade fighter as your single mature rooster that kills every other rival on site, then you lose that one rooster for some reason, your flock is no longer self-sustainable unless you introduce a new rooster from somewhere or you had cockerel chicks waiting in the wing. Larger farms could possibly sustain enough fighting brood cocks free range if they have room to spread out. But for someone on smaller acreage they’ll only have room for one overall flock, and that one flock needs at least a couple of mature roosters.

My JF hybrids have divided into two flocks that roost separately. One flock is headed by Hei Hei, who is going on 2 years old. Hei Hei will maim rivals but he’s highly tolerant of stags that don’t have their spurs. Ragnar heads the other flock. Like Hei Hei, he tolerates stags that don’t have spurs. Ragnar is 11 months old. Whether him and Hei Hei will fight it out to the death as they age I cannot say. But their territories are not large. They can stare each other down from about 50 yards away and as long as they don’t cross an invisible line, all is well. If they were dead on game I presume they wouldn’t be able to see each other at any distance without triggering. But if they were that aggressive, they’d be unnatural.

I’m looking for birds that as far as social aggression goes behave about like wild turkeys, which seem to be the galliform most perfectly adapted for feral life in North American countryside. Yes, turkeys can be fierce. But they also retain a natural pecking order.

 

[Patriot1672]

Agreed. One needs multiple roosters in a free range flock. If you have a high-grade fighter as your single mature rooster that kills every other rival on site, then you lose that one rooster for some reason, your flock is no longer self-sustainable unless you introduce a new rooster from somewhere or you had cockerel chicks waiting in the wing. Larger farms could possibly sustain enough fighting brood cocks free range if they have room to spread out. But for someone on smaller acreage they’ll only have room for one overall flock, and that one flock needs at least a couple of mature roosters.

My JF hybrids have divided into two flocks that roost separately. One flock is headed by Hei Hei, who is going on 2 years old. Hei Hei will maim rivals but he’s highly tolerant of stags that don’t have their spurs. Ragnar heads the other flock. Like Hei Hei, he tolerates stags that don’t have spurs. Ragnar is 11 months old. Whether him and Hei Hei will fight it out to the death as they age I cannot say. But their territories are not large. They can stare each other down from about 50 yards away and as long as they don’t cross an invisible line, all is well. If they were dead on game I presume they wouldn’t be able to see each other at any distance without triggering. But if they were that aggressive, they’d be unnatural.

I’m looking for birds that as far as social aggression goes behave about like wild turkeys, which seem to be the galliform most perfectly adapted for feral life in North American countryside. Yes, turkeys can be fierce. But they also retain a natural pecking order.

I have plenty of land that’s not the problem. I could move one rooster a half mile away and he would still haul ass back to the rooster he was squaring up with in the first place. It’s just impossible for me to keep another rooster with the one I have now. If an underling shows defeat he will still chase them. I do typically keep my Brooders full of chicks though In case something was to happen. I love the name Ragnar for yours haha.

 

[BoogieWight]

Agreed. One needs multiple roosters in a free range flock. If you have a high-grade fighter as your single mature rooster that kills every other rival on site, then you lose that one rooster for some reason, your flock is no longer self-sustainable unless you introduce a new rooster from somewhere or you had cockerel chicks waiting in the wing. Larger farms could possibly sustain enough fighting brood cocks free range if they have room to spread out. But for someone on smaller acreage they’ll only have room for one overall flock, and that one flock needs at least a couple of mature roosters.

My JF hybrids have divided into two flocks that roost separately. One flock is headed by Hei Hei, who is going on 2 years old. Hei Hei will maim rivals but he’s highly tolerant of stags that don’t have their spurs. Ragnar heads the other flock. Like Hei Hei, he tolerates stags that don’t have spurs. Ragnar is 11 months old. Whether him and Hei Hei will fight it out to the death as they age I cannot say. But their territories are not large. They can stare each other down from about 50 yards away and as long as they don’t cross an invisible line, all is well. If they were dead on game I presume they wouldn’t be able to see each other at any distance without triggering. But if they were that aggressive, they’d be unnatural.

I’m looking for birds that as far as social aggression goes behave about like wild turkeys, which seem to be the galliform most perfectly adapted for feral life in North American countryside. Yes, turkeys can be fierce. But they also retain a natural pecking order.

The trick that I found to running a few real game roosters with the flock is to have another rooster in the flock that can put the work on them, but will let them run when it finally happens. They will all run eventually, but its best if your there to pick them up and drop them off at a good distance a few times. I'm not sure how to integrate a larger game like a peruvian or something, which would be ideal for bringing up the size of your birds. I haven't tried letting a hen raise some large games with the flock yet out of pure laziness and I am kinda past that point of my project I think. The american games tend to not be remotely as aggressive when i have done that. Just never separate them from the flock, because when reintroduced it is almost like dropping off a brand new adult game.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

The trick that I found to running a few real game roosters with the flock is to have another rooster in the flock that can put the work on them, but will let them run when it finally happens. They will all run eventually, but its best if your there to pick them up and drop them off at a good distance a few times. I'm not sure how to integrate a larger game like a peruvian or something, which would be ideal for bringing up the size of your birds. I haven't tried letting a hen raise some large games with the flock yet out of pure laziness and I am kinda past that point of my project I think. The american games tend to not be remotely as aggressive when i have done that. Just never separate them from the flock, because when reintroduced it is almost like dropping off a brand new adult game.

One difficulty I have as I research and learn about gamefowl is finding accurate information that’s consistent, where experienced gamefowl people often have their own opinions on things that often conflict with each other and neither opinion can be said to not be based on experience. Case and point, some gamefowl people won’t consider a bird “game” if it will tolerate another male at any time past chickhood. In which case the “game” response is caused by artificial selection that increases aggression beyond what would be found in nature. If you offer examples of birds behaving differently, the response is “well those birds must be dunghills.” Others insist that a bird can be a “real” gamefowl and still set up a degree of a natural pecking order, where a mature cock will keep order and tolerate stags until they’re mature, at which time they may become challengers. Or when new mature bird is dropped into the mix. In that scenerio, the “game” response is due to a fight between unknown strangers in what in nature would amount to an interloper invading a new territory. Thus, the cock pit would be simply a simulation of what’s found in nature when two wild junglefowl clash over hens or territory and both are similarly matched, and “game” is more of a preservation of the wild traits with artificial selection only modifying the trait slightly.

I’ve had both definitions thrown at me over the last couple of years and each person will fight for however they define “game” about as fierce as the roosters themselves.

The wild definition seems to make more sense to me, and yet I can’t rule out that decades of tie cord raising hasn’t modified gamefowl from what they were 150 years ago. All I know is my family used to free range their gamefowl on about 100 acres of Florida woods and the brood cocks would set up territories in the woods and avoided each other. My great grandfather and great uncle collected stags and cocks for fighting off the woods free rangers, but only my great uncle is alive and I suppose because I’m a part of “The State” in my profession he won’t give me the time of day to give me any info about the family birds. I actually laid all of this out in the JF thread.

I only say all of that to say, what you’re describing is the sort of nature I’m looking for. Birds that will set up territories and space themselves out and otherwise tolerate each other if they know one another. If they trigger once in a while and kill each other, that’s fine. I’m all for them killing a stranger on sight. They just need to be able to allow more than one mature rooster or bullstag to live around the area so the homestead isn’t left wanting if the dominant rooster dies.

 

[PioneerChicks]

I'm late, but following!