Delawares from kathyinmo

[Zanna]

One of last year's culls molting into a buff color on top. Some are much more red than this.

Perfect pic. to show what we are seeing. My lovely original F'4 hen who has been as white as can be for two years is just coming out of molt and showing some slight buff colour on the wings like the hen pictured

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Perfect pic. to show what we are seeing.  My lovely original F'4 hen who has been as white as can be for two years is just coming out of molt and showing some slight buff colour on the wings like the hen pictured  

No, not her! She was my big hope to prove it's possible for these guys to stay white.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I'm going to try to post a few more photos of the hens from last year that are coming out of molt with worse color issues than they went in. I'm having phone and computer issues, and don't even see the "add photo" button right now, so this may take several passes. I'll try to post them as edits to this post, so keep checking back ...

 

[finnfur]

One of last year's culls molting into a buff color on top. Some are much more red than this.

Any depth to it or just surface ?

 

[finnfur]

Some conversation from the past: Delaware Color bleed
Kim, Kathy , Jeff and others- 2012
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/249618/show-off-your-delawares-pic-heavy/11570

 

[capayvalleychick]

Some conversation from the past: Delaware Color bleed
Kim, Kathy , Jeff and others- 2012
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/249618/show-off-your-delawares-pic-heavy/11570

Hi guys! Reading the posts from last to first to catch up... Tom, that conversation was about brassiness, which is different from the red/brown coloring that Leslie posted in her photo.

 

[capayvalleychick]

Perfect pic. to show what we are seeing. My lovely original F'4 hen who has been as white as can be for two years is just coming out of molt and showing some slight buff colour on the wings like the hen pictured

My hens are all in mid molt (half bald) right now. Yesterday, I noticed that at least half of them have some very light buff coloring in varying degrees. It might not show when they finish feathering.

 

[capayvalleychick]

The breeding consultant came up today to look at the flock with the other local breeders. My brain is numb at the moment. So much to digest. I learned how to find bad wings in younger cockerels.

He also suggested that as the birds get bigger and heavier -- he recommends going ahead and aiming for big birds -- it might be good to let them sleep on the ground. This helps keep the keels straight, and avoid other injury. No roosts is a very new concept for me. I'll have to think on that. We have a while before mine are oversized.

An idea that I've used for low roosts is cinder blocks on the ground with a 2x4 through the holes. Birds sleeping on the ground really mess up their breast feathers.

I'm no expert but I wouldn't necessarily breed for much bigger than Standard. I know you see it in shows but if you get too big it interferes with ability to breed. JMO

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I'm going to try to post a few more photos of the hens from last year that are coming out of molt with worse color issues than they went in. I'm having phone and computer issues, and don't even see the "add photo" button right now, so this may take several passes. I'll try to post them as edits to this post, so keep checking back ...

Due to technical difficulties here, I had to take the LOOOOOOOONG way around to get photos onto my computer. And got stuck on facebook talking about the photos. If you are on FB, it might be worth a trip over to the Delaware Poultry Club United's group where some very useful info has popped up into the discussion below this photo that I posted. @kathyinmo and @capayvalleychick even stopped by with some super useful information about other lines and such.

Yep. Quite the Conversation Piece, this hen (one of the F5 culls, who is finishing up her first big adult molt looking like this). Interesting how posting a photo of a cull brought so many people out of the woodwork to comment. I think I received exactly ONE comment about the photos of "good" birds I've posted recently, and that one was from @capayvalleychick (thank you, Kim).




I also posted this photo, of a more buff colored hen. She is super fluffy, so I would not use her anyway based on that. But she is looking super cute with those fresh tail feathers peeking out back.

Note that both of these hens have "perfect" tail color ... if you ignore the smudgy brown present along with the white frosted/shafted black. They also have the striped neck feathers. When I looked closely at these birds as pullets, I could already see hints of the brown/red/buff that is showing up so strongly now. So they were put in with the laying flock. If I have any of them that finish up the molt with white bodies, I'll consider breeding them next season.

Meanwhile, in the breeding pen the females I mated last year are behind with their molt. For sure some have bad color coming in.

The "perfect" tail color on the pullets comes with the striped necks and the promise of buff/brown/red feathers. Those birds also tend to have lovely orange legs. So when I see the striped necks and/or "perfect" tails sprouting on the pullets, my heart sinks a little.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Hi guys! Reading the posts from last to first to catch up... Tom, that conversation was about brassiness, which is different from the red/brown coloring that Leslie posted in her photo.

I thought this post covered the "possibility" of it red/brown/buff bleed through from the hybrid process ... ? It seemed to be a comprehensive yet somewhat light summation of the feather color issues people experience with Delawares. Makes me feel less alone.

Oh the old dreaded yellowing/brassiness creeping out in the ol Delaware question. It seems to me there are quite a few different reasons for this horrid trait the pops up in the breed and some are still up in the air on this subject. I've read and seen such stuff as recessive white causing such to bleed through(?), Diet/feed(for sure on some), Out-crossing the Delaware with different breeds also WILL cause such, and environment(another big?) on this one too. I know for sure that the diet(xanthophyll/carotenoids) such as corn, green vegitation, can cause this yellowing to occur (esp) on the males and just on their sex feathers too(ie...Hackle, saddle,wing bows and bars,all of which is considered their pyle zone) there's something to this too, as all these feathers are of a different conformity than the rest of the body plumage with the exception of the sickles in the tail and the reason it doesn't show up on these on the Delawares is because they are dark (grey, black, green and some purple). It has to do with the oils from the oil gland that stains these feathers after a time because if these feathers were supposed to be this color they would come out of the follicle colored as such, the base color should not change but with the exception of fading from sun and wear. Feathers are just the same as hair and finger nails and such and they are created by dead proteins.

Now onto the out-crossing which was/is done at the hatcheries because of the shortage of Delawares and to keep up with supply and demand the factories would/might still do cross Delaware males onto Columbian pattern females and Red females (RIR,Production reds, and New Hampshire and no telling what or who else they could) and/to produce a clone look-a-like Delaware patterned birds. This is where the a lot of the yellow/brassiness is leaking through generations later down the line and even on some you can even find red/rusty feathers throughout the body plumage esp on the females , (colored this way from creation in the follicle) not just on the male sex feathers stained from the oils, sun, weathering, fading,wear, dirt, so on and so forth that goes along with normal everyday activities.

I got to get back to work or I'd elaborate more here, I might can get on later and give a little more of my hypothesis on the brassiness but short on time now and there are a few other post I really want to get in on while its hot on my mind, cause inquiring minds just got to know stuff and esp while the topics are on the front burners at the time, get my drift , too much going on all at once which is normal for me. I got lots of irons in the fire so to say.

Oh I have to say too, Mrs. Kathy the 2 Delaware girls are just amazingly beautiful (well so do the NH girls too but that's for another thread but not left out for sure) they are all super looking right at this age, right now you can tell they are soon to be layers and right at POL is when the girls always look there best too.

Jeff