Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[3riverschick]

Ok, here is the PDF file of the Southern States feeds for small and specialty flocks:

http://www.southernstates.com/docs/brochures/poultryfeedingguide.pdf

I am confused about all these different protein levels. Folk discuss 18%-21% , which is better, what to add to what. This makes them grow faster than that. This makes bigger birds than that. How does this all fit together? It's only2 percentage points

.
In dogs, I know it is very possible to grow a puppy too fast and have structural issues and misshapen skeletons. I numbered the questions to arrange the letter so it would be easier to respond. Hope that is ok.

1. Do poultry get mishappen structure poultry from feeding too rich?
2.How fast growing is too fast?
3.How much "meat is too much meat to put on a growing chick of a certain breed?

I read Cornish fall over dead if they grow too fast. I know Sussex faint if their feed is too rich. Then the condition disappears when the protein level is lowered. (Outram or Sharpe). We discuss how to jury-rig these commercial feeds for our flocks...however, these companies spent boo-coo monies getting the formulation just right.

4. So where is the middle of the road? (as Bob B. says).
5.Do we haveto become Master Mixers of custom feed to be successful in birds? ( feeding is much easier in dogs).
6.What happens if the wrong sex chicken eats the other sexes feed? 7.Will it hurt layers to eat Rock N Rooster Booster?
8.How long can the hens eat chick starter?
9.Will it affect their next laying cycle or throw them into a moult?

I have looked for answers to these questions but all I can find is discussions with various points of view.

10. Is there any one good general answer that will suffice for a beginner who wants to get some kind of feeding schedule settled so I came move on to learning other areas?

Thanks for sharing,
Best,
Karen

 

[catdaddyfro]

Ok, here is the PDF file of the Southern States feeds for small and specialty flocks:

http://www.southernstates.com/docs/brochures/poultryfeedingguide.pdf

I am confused about all these different protein levels. Folk discuss 18%-21% , which is better, what to add to what. This makes them grow faster than that. This makes bigger birds than that. How does this all fit together? It's only2 percentage points

.
In dogs, I know it is very possible to grow a puppy too fast and have structural issues and misshapen skeletons. I numbered the questions to arrange the letter so it would be easier to respond. Hope that is ok.

1. Do poultry get mishappen structure poultry from feeding too rich?
2.How fast growing is too fast?
3.How much "meat is too much meat to put on a growing chick of a certain breed?

I read Cornish fall over dead if they grow too fast. I know Sussex faint if their feed is too rich. Then the condition disappears when the protein level is lowered. (Outram or Sharpe). We discuss how to jury-rig these commercial feeds for our flocks...however, these companies spent boo-coo monies getting the formulation just right.

4. So where is the middle of the road? (as Bob B. says).
5.Do we haveto become Master Mixers of custom feed to be successful in birds? ( feeding is much easier in dogs).
6.What happens if the wrong sex chicken eats the other sexes feed? 7.Will it hurt layers to eat Rock N Rooster Booster?
8.How long can the hens eat chick starter?
9.Will it affect their next laying cycle or throw them into a moult?

I have looked for answers to these questions but all I can find is discussions with various points of view.

10. Is there any one good general answer that will suffice for a beginner who wants to get some kind of feeding schedule settled so I came move on to learning other areas?

Thanks for sharing,
Best,
Karen

Yes chickens are fun to raise and learn from/for, constantly.

Good ques I await all the input on them I will shed some light/my thoughts on a few later on I got to go now.

Jeff

 

[BarnGoddess01]

There is a fairly serious and significant movement going on here (Ontario, Canada) right now to preserve, sustain, and, I believe, promote "heritage genetics", promoted by the "Poultry Industry Council" of Canada. http://www.poultryindustrycouncil.ca/ Likely significant to poultry in all of North America. I am attending a formal meeting tomorrow. Assuming I can even begin to comprehend and digest what is presented, I hope to be able to share details with you following the meeting.

 

[fowlman01]

Ok, here is the PDF file of the Southern States feeds for small and specialty flocks:

http://www.southernstates.com/docs/brochures/poultryfeedingguide.pdf

I am confused about all these different protein levels. Folk discuss 18%-21% , which is better, what to add to what. This makes them grow faster than that. This makes bigger birds than that. How does this all fit together? It's only2 percentage points

.
In dogs, I know it is very possible to grow a puppy too fast and have structural issues and misshapen skeletons. I numbered the questions to arrange the letter so it would be easier to respond. Hope that is ok.

1. Do poultry get mishappen structure poultry from feeding too rich?
2.How fast growing is too fast?
3.How much "meat is too much meat to put on a growing chick of a certain breed?

I read Cornish fall over dead if they grow too fast. I know Sussex faint if their feed is too rich. Then the condition disappears when the protein level is lowered. (Outram or Sharpe). We discuss how to jury-rig these commercial feeds for our flocks...however, these companies spent boo-coo monies getting the formulation just right.

4. So where is the middle of the road? (as Bob B. says).
5.Do we haveto become Master Mixers of custom feed to be successful in birds? ( feeding is much easier in dogs).
6.What happens if the wrong sex chicken eats the other sexes feed? 7.Will it hurt layers to eat Rock N Rooster Booster?
8.How long can the hens eat chick starter?
9.Will it affect their next laying cycle or throw them into a moult?

I have looked for answers to these questions but all I can find is discussions with various points of view.

10. Is there any one good general answer that will suffice for a beginner who wants to get some kind of feeding schedule settled so I came move on to learning other areas?

Thanks for sharing,
Best,
Karen

As you know Karen...I don't usually get into feed discussion because I believe that there are too many variables from location to location and even within breeds/strains. I believe a chicken can get a mishappen skeleton if fed too rich in protein, but again it is by strain and breed. BTW: I have raised a lot of Cornish and have never had one fall over dead from growing too fast......nor do I believe the Sussex story either. You can't believe everything you read in those old poultry books. They had chicken shysters in the old days too. Any bird can have problems if the body outgrows the legs, but I have never seen a Cornish grow that fast. The Cornish/Rock crosses do grow that fast and yes, they do have leg problems right before you eat them, but by then it doesn't matter. Even those don't fall over dead though.

Here is what I believe: I believe most of what happens to a chicken with a reasonable diet is the result of their genes/breeding. Feed is not going to make an inferior chicken look like a champ. I feed a 20% protein pellet to my chickens , ducks and geese. They all get the same feed. If I have chickens being raised by a hen they get the same thing as well and I don't use little pellets. Chicks I hatch and brood get medicated chick starter for 6 weeks or so...or they will die when they hit the ground here. I don't recommend any of my practices because your feed source and mine are probably going to be different. You see how many things they put on the feed sack label....it is not going to be the same from location to location.

When you get to the point where you actually believe raising chickens is harder than dogs....let me know........lol

Walt

 

[Fred's Hens]

Karen, all any of us can do is share our experience and some of us have a few years, some a decade or two and some of us have a half century of caring for the birds. Experience isn't laboratory testing, but .........

I believe that many modern birds, especially the super hybrid layers, come into point of lay far too quickly. Since the genetics are zipped up to do so, lay heavy and sadly, die too young, in most cases, it is absolutely to your advantage to dial back the protein from weeks 12-19. This adolescent period really needs to be slowed. This IS laboratory and field tested, at millions of dollars for research for the industry.

Heirloom birds? Bred to the standard? Out of DNA that is 100 years old? Well, with our ringlet Barred Rocks from the old Thompson line, you don't want to slow them down. They are notoriously s..l..o..w.. already. They can handle the protein, plus they simply have twice the size to them. They are HUGE and require nutrition, good, balanced nutrition. It isn't just calcium, but animal protein, in a balanced feed and enriched with whole grains that make these birds grow right. In order to feed some 25%-50% of their diet in whole grains, I believe one must feed a Game Bird 24%, with animal protein to balance out those grains. This half scratch, half Game Bird makes these big, old line birds into what they were designed to be.

Such lines have very, very little in common with the "modern", tiny, light weight, small framed production strains typically sold at feed stores and hatcheries. Each type of bird has its place. I believe their dietary needs to be vastly different.

So, there's an old timer's 10 cents worth. Sorry to go on so long.

 

[thedragonlady]

As you know Karen...I don't usually get into feed discussion because I believe that there are too many variables from location to location and even within breeds/strains. I believe a chicken can get a mishappen skeleton if fed too rich in protein, but again it is by strain and breed. BTW: I have raised a lot of Cornish and have never had one fall over dead from growing too fast......nor do I believe the Sussex story either. You can't believe everything you read in those old poultry books. They had chicken shysters in the old days too. Any bird can have problems if the body outgrows the legs, but I have never seen a Cornish grow that fast. The Cornish/Rock crosses do grow that fast and yes, they do have leg problems right before you eat them, but by then it doesn't matter. Even those don't fall over dead though.

Here is what I believe: I believe most of what happens to a chicken with a reasonable diet is the result of their genes/breeding. Feed is not going to make an inferior chicken look like a champ. I feed a 20% protein pellet to my chickens , ducks and geese. They all get the same feed. If I have chickens being raised by a hen they get the same thing as well and I don't use little pellets. Chicks I hatch and brood get medicated chick starter for 6 weeks or so...or they will die when they hit the ground here. I don't recommend any of my practices because your feed source and mine are probably going to be different. You see how many things they put on the feed sack label....it is not going to be the same from location to location.

When you get to the point where you actually believe raising chickens is harder than dogs....let me know........lol

Walt

As you know Walt, I raised, and showed English Mastiffs, for years. I always fed Purina Beef Puppy Chow with pressure cooked chicken necks to the pups. Won a few specialties, and Westminster on that diet. Then I got talked into trying a popular low bulk, high protein feed developed for kennel owners I think, who wanted less poop. No bulk in that feed at all, and VERY expensive.

The results at 8 weeks were Mastiff pups who looked like Dane puppies. Tall, narrow critters. When I compared weights to previous litters, I immediately put them back on the high bulk feed. They bloomed, but were never as massive as the Mastiffs raised on high bulk.

Made it clear to me that unless you are raising weasels, or maybe Moderns ; Bulk is good.

 

[jaman4]

Here is a link for the feed I use to grow out both sexes.I learned a long time ago to not go on dog forums and discuss feed.I read labels and make my own decisions.There are some high priced dog foods that are nothing but cereal.I like southern states because the mill is local.Also I like that the feeds I buy from them have animal protein.I am not trying to convince anyone what the best feed or method.It works for me and I thought I would share.
http://www.southernstates.com/catalog/p-9973-southern-states-rock-n-rooster-growth-booster-50lb.aspx
Bobby

 

[kwMississippi]

Southern States also has a poultry app called poultry pal.

 

[3riverschick]

Thank you all for taking time to respond to my feeding questions I appreciate it so much. I know this thread is about finding heritage fowl. But it is my home thread and I know, as the other poster wrote, things are different for heritage fowl than they are for production birds. When I put all your answers together, I am sure I will be able to figure out all my questions. Thanks so much for making yourselves available as teachers and counselors. Welcome to this thread kwmississippi.

I am sure you will find it as valuable as I do. In dogs, we paid hundreds of dollars just for a weeked seminar with expert teachers like we find here in poultry.
Best Regards,
Karen

 

[kwMississippi]

Thank you all for taking time to respond to my feeding questions I appreciate it so much. I know this thread is about finding heritage fowl. But it is my home thread and I know, as the other poster wrote, things are different for heritage fowl than they are for production birds. When I put all your answers together, I am sure I will be able to figure out all my questions. Thanks so much for making yourselves available as teachers and counselors. Welcome to this thread kwmississippi.     I am sure you will find it as valuable as I do. In dogs, we paid hundreds of dollars just for a weeked seminar with expert teachers like we find here in poultry.
 Best Regards,
 Karen

I did show cocker spaniels. Talk about expensive. That was not nearly as bad as the people and politics you had to put up with.