BBS breeding and dilute / white splash

[2ndTink]

I guess I can test hatch and see

 

[MysteryChicken]

I guess I can test hatch and see

Yep, & will be fun doing so.

 

[2ndTink]

Thank you all so much for your help! I'll try to remember to post back with chick photos and which crosses I end up trying.

 

[NatJ]

As far as the blog goes, some of the wording choices are... not exactly the best in my opinion. But I think what they were saying about white coming out of blue is more meant to be that, while you would expect blue, black, and splash to be the results of breeding blue to blue, in some cases you might have recessive white pop up as well, and this is not to be confused with the white that causes the paint pattern.

I think the blog just has a mistake, saying that splash x blue can produce 25% whites.

They are discussing black/blue/splash. They are listing percents if you breed black, blue, and splash in various combinations.

So Splash X Blue = 50% Blue, 50% Splash

If they want to discuss birds that carry recessive white, they should do it for all the colors. If all parents carry recessive white, then all pairings have a 25% chance of producing white chicks.

If both parents carry recessive white, then:
Splash x Blue = 25% white, 37.5% blue, 37.5% splash
(the whites come equally from the blue chicks and the splash chicks, not just from the splash ones.)

The percentages will do similar things for all the other breeding combinations: one quarter of every color will show recessive white.

I have heard conflicting reports on whether the dilution effect with splash actually happens or not. I don't honestly know on that one, and have no personal experience to lean on in order to answer about that.

The same goes for me: I have heard conflicting reports, have no useful personal experience, and do not know what is true.

Recessive white shuts off all pigment to the feathering, so regardless of other genes being carried, the bird is white in color. It does not matter what those other genes are, the bird is still white. So, your pullet from your Blue x Splash crossing, if she really is pure white all over, then she could just be a true White Silkie and her parents both happened to carry the recessive white gene. Since you don't have a recessive White male, I don't think crossing her to any of the males you have would necessarily confirm anything 100% about her unless she happens to have the right genetics hiding under recessive white. If you cross her to a Splash male and get any Blues, for example, that would tell you that she is not truly a Splash and instead recessive White covering up Blue. However, she could also be recessive white covering Splash, thus making the result of crossing her to any of those males the same as if she was just a Splash without recessive white, so that would not really confirm anything at all.

As for fun colors to cross her to, I would think that the chocolate-splits would be the most fun to cross her to as they would impart the most variety in their offspring regardless of whether she's recessive White or Splash. However, it all depends on what your definition of fun is in this context.

Your thoughts pretty much match mine

Yes, crossing to a chocolate split could give a nice set of colors. Underneath the recessive white (if she is), either she's genetically splash (blue chicks and mauve chicks), or she's blue (black chicks, chocolate chicks, blue chicks, mauve chicks).

Or just breed her to a plain black male, to get blues and maybe blacks. (Some blacks if she has only one copy of the blue gene, or just blues if she has two copies of the blue gene.)

If she is recessive white, of course all her chicks will carry the recessive white gene, so that is a point to consider when using her in a breeding program. If she is recessive white, both of her parents must also carry the gene, so that is something to consider as well. (For example: if you want a line of chickens that does NOT produce recessive whites, then a recessive white chicken would not be welcome, and neither would the chicks or parents of that recessive white bird.)

If it is possible to breed her back to her own father, that could be a good test for recessive white: if she is recessive white, he must carry it, so their offspring would be 50% white (recessive white) and 50% other colors (black/blue/splash, some or all of those in various proportions depending on which color her father is, and what color genes she has.)

 

[2ndTink]

I think the blog just has a mistake, saying that splash x blue can produce 25% whites.

They are discussing black/blue/splash. They are listing percents if you breed black, blue, and splash in various combinations.

So Splash X Blue = 50% Blue, 50% Splash

If they want to discuss birds that carry recessive white, they should do it for all the colors. If all parents carry recessive white, then all pairings have a 25% chance of producing white chicks.

If both parents carry recessive white, then:
Splash x Blue = 25% white, 37.5% blue, 37.5% splash
(the whites come equally from the blue chicks and the splash chicks, not just from the splash ones.)

The percentages will do similar things for all the other breeding combinations: one quarter of every color will show recessive white.


The same goes for me: I have heard conflicting reports, have no useful personal experience, and do not know what is true.


Your thoughts pretty much match mine

Yes, crossing to a chocolate split could give a nice set of colors. Underneath the recessive white (if she is), either she's genetically splash (blue chicks and mauve chicks), or she's blue (black chicks, chocolate chicks, blue chicks, mauve chicks).

Or just breed her to a plain black male, to get blues and maybe blacks. (Some blacks if she has only one copy of the blue gene, or just blues if she has two copies of the blue gene.)

If she is recessive white, of course all her chicks will carry the recessive white gene, so that is a point to consider when using her in a breeding program. If she is recessive white, both of her parents must also carry the gene, so that is something to consider as well. (For example: if you want a line of chickens that does NOT produce recessive whites, then a recessive white chicken would not be welcome, and neither would the chicks or parents of that recessive white bird.)

If it is possible to breed her back to her own father, that could be a good test for recessive white: if she is recessive white, he must carry it, so their offspring would be 50% white (recessive white) and 50% other colors (black/blue/splash, some or all of those in various proportions depending on which color her father is, and what color genes she has.)

She's from a set of hatching eggs I bought so I can't line breed her back to her father. If she is recessive white I don't want to introduce those genes into my BBS breeding flock as I want to minimize surprises. I could definitely breed her to a black, I likely wouldn't keep any of the chicks, just sell them as pets with the warning that they might not cross with other colors as you would expect. I'm going to be hatching some chocolates this spring, so next year I could cross her with a chocolate for some additional fun.

My chocolate spits are a black frizzle or a satin, paint so with either of these two she'd have the chamce to produce some fun feathers to go along with the mystery colors.

It's like that white mystery flavor from AirHeads

 

[NatJ]

She's from a set of hatching eggs I bought so I can't line breed her back to her father. If she is recessive white I don't want to introduce those genes into my BBS breeding flock as I want to minimize surprises. I could definitely breed her to a black, I likely wouldn't keep any of the chicks, just sell them as pets with the warning that they might not cross with other colors as you would expect.

Breeding her to her own son would work equally well as a test for recessive white. It just takes longer (need to raise a son to adulthood, as compared with using her father who is already an adult.)

Yes, I can see why you would want to keep recessive white out of your flock of BBS.

If you want to be sure your BBS flock has no recessive white, you could test-mate every bird involved (breed each one to a recessive white, hatch enough chicks to either find a white one or be reasonably sure they will not produce any white ones.)

Oh, I just remembered, there is now a test for recessive white:
https://iqbirdtesting.com/whitegene
Testing one bird (the puzzling pullet) might be cheaper than test-mating, by the time you consider the feed & time involved.
They can test a sample of blood or feathers (or eggshell, but that would mean the shell she hatched from: I'm guessing you no longer have that.)

If she has recessive white (confirmed by test mating or a DNA test), I would be suspicious of any other chicks that originated in the same flock. If she does not have recessive white, there is no real reason to suspect any of the rest would have it either.

I'm going to be hatching some chocolates this spring, so next year I could cross her with a chocolate for some additional fun.

My chocolate spits are a black frizzle or a satin, paint so with either of these two she'd have the chamce to produce some fun feathers to go along with the mystery colors.

It's like that white mystery flavor from AirHeads

That does sound like it will give you quite a variety of chicks!

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

I think the blog just has a mistake, saying that splash x blue can produce 25% whites.

They are discussing black/blue/splash. They are listing percents if you breed black, blue, and splash in various combinations.

So Splash X Blue = 50% Blue, 50% Splash

If they want to discuss birds that carry recessive white, they should do it for all the colors. If all parents carry recessive white, then all pairings have a 25% chance of producing white chicks.

If both parents carry recessive white, then:
Splash x Blue = 25% white, 37.5% blue, 37.5% splash
(the whites come equally from the blue chicks and the splash chicks, not just from the splash ones.)

The percentages will do similar things for all the other breeding combinations: one quarter of every color will show recessive white.

You are absolutely right, I somehow read through that blog post like 3 times while writing my reply and never noticed that '25% White' tacked on to their Blue x Splash breeding outcomes in the chart. I wondered where OP had seen that--turns out it was just me being oblivious!

Oh, I just remembered, there is now a test for recessive white:
https://iqbirdtesting.com/whitegene
Testing one bird (the puzzling pullet) might be cheaper than test-mating, by the time you consider the feed & time involved.
They can test a sample of blood or feathers (or eggshell, but that would mean the shell she hatched from: I'm guessing you no longer have that.)

This is very good to know! I hadn't realized how much DNA testing had expanded for poultry! I might have to look into this, myself. A good portion of my silkied Cochins descend from a male who hatched out alongside a recessive White female, so it'd be interesting to see if he carried the gene and passed it on to any of them.

 

[2ndTink]

Breeding her to her own son would work equally well as a test for recessive white. It just takes longer (need to raise a son to adulthood, as compared with using her father who is already an adult.)

Yes, I can see why you would want to keep recessive white out of your flock of BBS.

If you want to be sure your BBS flock has no recessive white, you could test-mate every bird involved (breed each one to a recessive white, hatch enough chicks to either find a white one or be reasonably sure they will not produce any white ones.)

Oh, I just remembered, there is now a test for recessive white:
https://iqbirdtesting.com/whitegene
Testing one bird (the puzzling pullet) might be cheaper than test-mating, by the time you consider the feed & time involved.
They can test a sample of blood or feathers (or eggshell, but that would mean the shell she hatched from: I'm guessing you no longer have that.)

If she has recessive white (confirmed by test mating or a DNA test), I would be suspicious of any other chicks that originated in the same flock. If she does not have recessive white, there is no real reason to suspect any of the rest would have it either.


That does sound like it will give you quite a variety of chicks!

Wow, thanks for the resource! I had never heard of DNA testing a chicken before I saw sikkie breeders saying they did DNA gender testing over the last year I've had silkies. Very neat!

The other chicks that hatched from the same pen as her aren't exactly SOP, so I have purchased chicks from another breeder and will be hatching out 2 more doz in March from other SOP breeders, so these new additions are more likely to be my foundation stock than the ones I hatched last year. I've sure learned a lot!

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Oh, I just remembered, there is now a test for recessive white:
https://iqbirdtesting.com/whitegene
Testing one bird (the puzzling pullet) might be cheaper than test-mating, by the time you consider the feed & time involved.

Do you know if this would work for all recessive whites? I have phoenixes that have a recessive white, but I think it's a different type than other breeds

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

Do you know if this would work for all recessive whites? I have phoenixes that have a recessive white, but I think it's a different type than other breeds

The page specifies the C-locus, so I don't think they'll be looking for any other genes with that test.