Ayam cemani what to look for when buying ?

[pkinville]

Avoid Sugar Feather Farms. 1 died in transit, 1 died on arrival from sickness. Of the 6 left, 1 has a crossed beak, 1 has a completely white feathered head, and 1 is half the size of the other 5. So 50% of the ones that survives are junk, mixed birds with bad genetics and likely the rest are carrying the poor genetics.

 

[AGeese]

Ayam Cemani aren't rare anymore. Look at the number of listings for them on eBay, everyone is selling them because they think they can get a premium for them. I just responded to someone else looking that they are everywhere in Texas.

They also aren't an APA Standard Breed, so you're not going to find many people who take seriously the genetics and breeding, just a lot of people looking to make a buck.

You can't tell how good they are as chicks, eumelanin isn't fully present at hatch. You can only look at the parents for an idea. If they are breeding one cock per hen, then they're more serious about quality than someone breeding one cock to many hens. The parents should have no red or white showing through anywhere, but that's not a guarantee either. Red/Gold leaking in any of the feathers is a hard pass, white edges or tips in feathers might be okay if they're less than three, but generally if feathers haven't fully eumelanized after the second molt, pass there as well.

If you're in Florida, just buy from Greenfire. All the birds around you are going to be from their lines, no sense in getting something that hasn't been properly bred to a plan when you can get chicks directly from the seed stock.

On your show quality silkies - again, just like slapping "rare" on a listing for Cemani, anyone can say their birds are show quality. Dead giveaways are:

1. No proof that their birds have ever been in a show, let alone won one.
2. The breed isn't an APA or ABA Standard breed, or the variety (color) isn't a recognized one.
3. They do not own a copy of the bound and published Standard of Perfection. (You simply cannot find everything you need to know online.)
4. NO PT CERTIFICATE (You have to have at least PT to show anywhere, and to sell across state lines, along with an NPIP#.)
5. They sell a ton of different breeds.
6. They advertise everywhere with multiple posts like they're desperate.
7. They are not a member of the official breed club and/or the APA/ABA (a requirement for show points).
8. They cannot immediately tell you what faults (defects) are most common in their line and how they've been trying to work on them.
9. They get broodstock regularly from many sources.
10. If they're a member of any groups or forums, their posts do not reflect a strong knowledge of their breed.
11. The place looks like a puppy farm.
12. They let you into their pens and they practice little to no biosecurity.
13. They have no opinion when you ask, "I'd like to vaccinate for ILT, do you have a recommendation on which vaccine to use?" (If they have shown before or are well respected as a breeder, they'll know what the answer is and have horror stories to share.)
14. Bonafide show quality chicks from a show winning breeder are never less than $15 each, and that's usually only when they need to move them, they know what they have.
15. And the biggest tell? If you start asking questions and they back out or give you attitude like they don't need your business because someone else will pay what they want without hassle (and they're not a Nationals Winner), then walk away - even if the chicks are cheap you're not getting what you paid for.

$15? I haven't seen less than 30 and recently $150. I think this is good advice that applies across the board.

 

[Terryc001]

Ayam Cemani aren't rare anymore. Look at the number of listings for them on eBay, everyone is selling them because they think they can get a premium for them. I just responded to someone else looking that they are everywhere in Texas.

They also aren't an APA Standard Breed, so you're not going to find many people who take seriously the genetics and breeding, just a lot of people looking to make a buck.

You can't tell how good they are as chicks, eumelanin isn't fully present at hatch. You can only look at the parents for an idea. If they are breeding one cock per hen, then they're more serious about quality than someone breeding one cock to many hens. The parents should have no red or white showing through anywhere, but that's not a guarantee either. Red/Gold leaking in any of the feathers is a hard pass, white edges or tips in feathers might be okay if they're less than three, but generally if feathers haven't fully eumelanized after the second molt, pass there as well.

If you're in Florida, just buy from Greenfire. All the birds around you are going to be from their lines, no sense in getting something that hasn't been properly bred to a plan when you can get chicks directly from the seed stock.

On your show quality silkies - again, just like slapping "rare" on a listing for Cemani, anyone can say their birds are show quality. Dead giveaways are:

1. No proof that their birds have ever been in a show, let alone won one.
2. The breed isn't an APA or ABA Standard breed, or the variety (color) isn't a recognized one.
3. They do not own a copy of the bound and published Standard of Perfection. (You simply cannot find everything you need to know online.)
4. NO PT CERTIFICATE (You have to have at least PT to show anywhere, and to sell across state lines, along with an NPIP#.)
5. They sell a ton of different breeds.
6. They advertise everywhere with multiple posts like they're desperate.
7. They are not a member of the official breed club and/or the APA/ABA (a requirement for show points).
8. They cannot immediately tell you what faults (defects) are most common in their line and how they've been trying to work on them.
9. They get broodstock regularly from many sources.
10. If they're a member of any groups or forums, their posts do not reflect a strong knowledge of their breed.
11. The place looks like a puppy farm.
12. They let you into their pens and they practice little to no biosecurity.
13. They have no opinion when you ask, "I'd like to vaccinate for ILT, do you have a recommendation on which vaccine to use?" (If they have shown before or are well respected as a breeder, they'll know what the answer is and have horror stories to share.)
14. Bonafide show quality chicks from a show winning breeder are never less than $15 each, and that's usually only when they need to move them, they know what they have.
15. And the biggest tell? If you start asking questions and they back out or give you attitude like they don't need your business because someone else will pay what they want without hassle (and they're not a Nationals Winner), then walk away - even if the chicks are cheap you're not getting what you paid for.

uncertified birds are cheap and every where