Air-filled Crop Post-Crop Surgery? & other Complications

[khind]

My hen Buffy's crop was enormous and Fully impacted (full of rock and dirt/sand, etc.), after already having been flushed for a crop impaction several weeks before. She's 6 or so, and 2 -3 months ago is the first time she's ever dealt with anything like this. She also started wearing a crop bra - I assumed she was pendulous - until the crop size got out of control and the bra did nothing for her. I searched for weeks for a vet who would do crop surgery on her. She was on death's door... for a long time.
She ended up having emergency crop surgery this past Monday, 5/01. By Thursday, 5/04, her crop was huge again (my open fingers measured about 3.25" across holding the sides). Terrible news especially since she's still emaciated since this impaction issue lasted so long.
One vet wondered whether a rock from her crop had gotten down into her proventriculus... which would be devastating.
Another of the vets I spoke with suggested that it could be full of air since surgery and that, if so, there's nothing that can be done. (It does not feel full of stuff, nor squishy. No smelly breath. It feels like a balloon or kickball filled all the way up/taut.)

Is it possible it could be filled with air? (But this vet has given me other advice that I found perplexing and another vet strongly disagreed with, or else I would simply take their word for it.) If so, could something like an anti-gas be safe and work for a chicken (simethicone - GasX or a children's version)?

Here's some other big information about Buffy's post-surgery state and things I've tried:

*I fed yogurt & soft-scrambled eggs the night of surgery, and for the next 3 days, per vet instructions. She loved both of them. I fed in small amounts at a time.
*She's had almost no stools - mostly yellowish/neon green urates and clear liquid - all this time. This had me thinking it was all stuck in the crop (logical). So...
*Today I started mineral oil enemas, as close to on-the-hour as I could, advised by a bird person that the mineral oil will stimulate the crop to draw out contents. After several enemas, Buffy finally started excreting small, but larger than before and consistent (every hour) solid-ish and genuinely solid stools. However, this was also after I started feeding a very small amount of crumble today, wetted 1st with yogurt, and then the next times with water. In fact, the stools look a little like the texture of crumble! Now, if it IS the crumble I've just started feeding her, then maybe her crop is NOT filled with other food, but just air? And maybe the little egg and the yogurt (being just a liquid) only produce thick liquid, and very tiny and very few stools? I'm hopeful (what little hope I have left) that Buffy is actually able to eliminate the waste from what she's taken in, i.e., that she is actually able to digest food and derive nutrients from it to Live.
*Her energy level after the 1st few enemas (i.e. today) has gone over the charts. Causality? But it could also be coincidence because, e.g.,...
*She's been on 4 medications since surgery: Baytril, Itraconazole, Reglan (per my request, just in case her original impaction might have been caused by crop stasis), and Metacam. So maybe the drugs have finally started making her feel better & more energetic? I don't know. But today she's literally running out of her crate the moment I open it up to take her out to give her an enema, medicine, or food (she's looking for the food).

So, I'm asking about possible air in the crop, and possible solutions, if any;
Also, whether anyone has had a similar experience of their chicken's crop blowing up again after surgery, and if anything worked/what was the cause;
and finally, any other advice or ideas on her prognosis. I was about to throw in the towel - Yet again - until I saw some of these stools today. But I'm still plenty scared about her crop. And she's still emaciated.

Thank you.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

One vet wondered whether a rock from her crop had gotten down into her proventriculus... which would be devastating.

@azygous may have some suggestions for you.
Anytime I've had a hen with an air filled crop I was dealing with Sour Crop.

She had crop surgery, what was the material that the vet removed from the blocked crop (straw/grass, feathers, etc.)?
Were there large rocks?

Chickens pick up rocks to help process foods, but sometimes they may ingest larger than normal rocks I suppose. The vet wondered whether a rock from the crop had gotten into the proventriculus (which would be devastating?) How large of a rock are we talking? Everything goes from the crop to the proventriculus including grit (rocks that hens eat), these are moved on to the gizzard, so I'm curious of how large of a rock the vet thought may have gotten into the digestive system.

 

[khind]

@azygous may have some suggestions for you.
Anytime I've had a hen with an air filled crop I was dealing with Sour Crop.

She had crop surgery, what was the material that the vet removed from the blocked crop (straw/grass, feathers, etc.)?
Were there large rocks?

Chickens pick up rocks to help process foods, but sometimes they may ingest larger than normal rocks I suppose. The vet wondered whether a rock from the crop had gotten into the proventriculus (which would be devastating?) How large of a rock are we talking? Everything goes from the crop to the proventriculus including grit (rocks that hens eat), these are moved on to the gizzard, so I'm curious of how large of a rock the vet thought may have gotten into the digestive system.

Oh my gosh - they're doing some work on our cell tower, so it took me this long to get your response which you sent hours ago.
Her crop was filled with rocks, dirt... just a bunch of stuff - as heavy as cement. That's the best description I could get. (It had been sitting for a number of weeks before she could finally get surgery.) I had Xrays done 4 days Before surgery. I'll post a pic. No, I don't think the rocks were unusually large - no one said that - but it's just that there were so many, that the vet was worried if they laid her down for the surgery, a rock or rocks might go through and cause a blockage. That's what I was told. So i implored the vet to try with her sitting up, or at least propped up as much as possible. He was particularly interested to hear that a farm vet I know in a different state always does his crop surgeries with the chicken sitting up (with only a topical, never putting the bird under). So I hoped that this vet decided to do it that way. But when the surgery was over, I never got to ask him that question - which position Buffy was in for the procedure.

If it is sour crop, I would love to treat with Monistat, but Buffy is already taking Itraconazole, one of the drugs she was Rx'd to start the night after surgery.

Her crop has never smelled throughout all this, and it doesn't smell now. But I think I've read that can't always be a definitive barometer.

 

[khind]

X Rays 4 days Before surgery last week:

 

[khind]

Also, on 5/02, day two, I started taking pics of her stools on the diet of scrambled eggs and yogurt. Every day the stools got smaller and smaller - tiny with mostly urates. I was concerned about that, And about her crop seeming to grow but not go down all the way overnight, and talked to the vet who did surgery on 5/03 (day 3). He said 6 hours was a good turnaround time for waste to be expelled (which I thought was long), and also thankfully there's something coming out, so just keep watching. (As I thought of it later, eggs and yogurt might not produce much stool anyway, but these became smaller and smaller - hence my concern.) I withheld anything from her that night, and the next a.m., it had still not come down.
(I have lots of droppings pics. Too many.)

So yesterday, 5/06, I started mineral oil enemas as a bird person's suggestion; she said they would activate the crop, helping to draw the contents out of it.
After a few hourly enemas, Buffy started passing some stools that looked like the crumble I had begun to feed her. I figured that was a good sign! But the crop is still huge.
And she's emaciated still!

I'm still waiting for a call back from the vet office, the 24/7 emergency line. I probably need to leave another message.
Someone in the chicken world mentioned reverse tubing, to try to pull stuff out of the crop. I wonder if that would be an option? It is something I would put to the vet... if I ever can hear back today...

I also wonder whether Buffy's history of going broody so many times each year, with it taking longer to break her in the past couple of years, might have caused a crop stasis issue? All that fasting, and then what if she got into the habit of gorging when she snapped out of it? What if it's been a gradual thing, which just finally got out of control when I first saw her large crop in late Feb.? She never had any issues before that. I'm just wondering if that could be a cause. And then once it got so out of control, so stretched out, it's now difficult for it to respond the right way. (However, that's why we're trying the Reglan.)

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Poor girl!
She did have a LOT of rocks in there didn't she!
I understand the Vet's comment now, makes sense.

Hopefully things will start to move with the mineral oil and meds. Let us know what the vet says if they get back up with you.

 

[khind]

Poor girl!
She did have a LOT of rocks in there didn't she!
I understand the Vet's comment now, makes sense.

Hopefully things will start to move with the mineral oil and meds. Let us know what the vet says if they get back up with you.

Well, the vet who finally phoned me back was not an avian vet and had nothing to say about her condition. He told me when he heard my voicemail he contacted the surgery vet who said to tell me not to feed her. I totally understand that, but things are way worse than fasting. I conveyed that, and the person told me I would hear back from surgical vet tonight or tomorrow. It's 11 p.m. central, so I'm guessing tomorrow a.m. will be the time.
My poor girl - she got all excited just before bedtime when I approached her cage, almost jumping out, thinking I had food. One thing I realized tonight though: Once I put her crop bra on at day 3, that messed me up. It's very hard for me to see/realize what's going on with the crop - maybe especially with only this recent experience - when the crop bra is on. Once I decided to take it off, that's when I saw how big it had become.
Nevertheless, I did start fasting her early evening today. She's emaciated, so I don't know how long she will be ok fasting, but her crop is so full... And I'll hopefully at least get a good idea of what to do and prognosis very soon. Buffy also somehow regained a lot of energy early evening today. Chickens are SO tough... it's unbelievable!

 

[Wyorp Rock]

They still recommend that she gets fluids right?

I'd ask if you can tube or provide something liquid like Kaytee Exact Baby Bird formula. A lot of folks give them for a short period of time when they have a hen that needs to be tube fed or is unable to eat for some reason. The formula is a good source of protein, vitamins/minerals, etc. so that would at least get "something" into her system.

Ask the vet though.

 

[khind]

They still recommend that she gets fluids right?

I'd ask if you can tube or provide something liquid like Kaytee Exact Baby Bird formula. A lot of folks give them for a short period of time when they have a hen that needs to be tube fed or is unable to eat for some reason. The formula is a good source of protein, vitamins/minerals, etc. so that would at least get "something" into her system.

Ask the vet though.

All I know he said was, "Stop feeding her." So I don't know, but I did leave water with her because the weather is hot already!
I did order some good food (& a tube) to tube feed in case it got to that point; it should be here by Tues? Yes, I'll definitely find out what the Vet thinks about this.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

How is she doing today?