I’m all ears but to say he was wrong will take some convincing as the solution he recommended lead to an immediate cure. The day I switched to a standard broiler formula all the issues ceased and the birds recovered most of their weight.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
No worries - I'm up to the task. Its a pretty obvious error he made, and once I've explained, you will have a better grounding in amino acids, and be able to educate him.I’m all ears but to say he was wrong will take some convincing as the solution he recommended lead to an immediate cure. The day I switched to a standard broiler formula all the issues ceased and the birds recovered most of their weight.
This part is true. For Cx to do well, they need both a relatively high Crude Protein level AND that Crude Protein needs to be balanced in a way containing adequate amounts of certain key amino acids. If it gets those, it can manufacture or synthesize the rest.The owner of the hatchery where I got them said this when I sent pictures:
“layer feed is too low in protein for Cornish Cross, and does not contain the proper amino acid profile which Cornish need to grow properly.
This part is wrong (at least, the second part, and partially, the third). There are 22 amino acids which make up all protein in a chicken. Of those 22, nine are characterized as "critical", "essential", or (more commonly), "limiting". They are called that because a chicken either can't produce that amino acid on its own, or can't produce enough of that amino acid to meet its daily dietary needs. Of the nine, the four most critical are Methionine, Lysine, Threonine, and Tryptophan. The first two appear on US feed bags, the second two do not - because its very difficult to miss the targets for those two with the typical corn/soy ration most popular in the US if you get the first two right - and because if you don't get the first two right, it doesn't matter how much "extra" threonine or tryptophan your feed might contain (or any other AA), because your bird won't be able to use it effectively.Cornish need 32 amino acids in order to thrive, and layer feed only has about 25, since layers don’t need a high protein diet, but do need extra calcium and sodium.
True of everything, no different than sailors getting scurvy on long sea voyages w/o vitamin C or "mal de caribou" (literally, "caribou sickness", colloquially, "protein poisoning"), which comes of eating a diet of almost solely lean protein, such as rabbit or caribou...When Cornish are fed an inadequate ration, they can essentially starve on the ration which will cause runting, stunting, poor growth and performance, as well as losses.”
Perhaps you found a feed with all 32 amino acids, or maybe being grass fed helped somehow. Your outcome was much better than mine. I’ve concluded that having them sit from being so heavy in the last week or so is simply a cost of such a meat productive bird.
thank you for that, deep bow! If you have a chance, can you please cut and paste that into my thread called “trials and tribulations of suburban meat bird production”? I would like to have it to come back to and study. Do you have any suggested reading that goes into this level of detail? You might really enjoy the book, the behavioral biology of chickens, it’s specific to behavior but fun for folks with a science background.This part is true. For Cx to do well, they need both a relatively high Crude Protein level AND that Crude Protein needs to be balanced in a way containing adequate amounts of certain key amino acids. If it gets those, it can manufacture or synthesize the …
Anyhow, hope that helps, that you now have a better understanding of the differences in feeds and the importance of at least a couple key AAs, and of course I hope you find it at least a little bit convincing???
Honestly, I learned most of what I know in a couple weekends worth of readings here on BYC. Someone more knowledgeable than I wrote some things, and linked some studies. SO I read them. Then I read the studies they referenced. and the studies they referenced... and some free online books were shared, and... You get the idea.thank you for that, deep bow! If you have a chance, can you please cut and paste that into my thread called “trials and tribulations of suburban meat bird production”? I would like to have it to come back to and study. Do you have any suggested reading that goes into this level of detail? You might really enjoy the book, the behavioral biology of chickens, it’s specific to behavior but fun for folks with a science background.
I second the not impressed part so far with Hoovers and tractor supply. Cheaper is not always better I just picked up a 80 bird order and 50 were dead. Yes they said they’ll refund for the 50 but this was my big jump into trying to process to sale. What a motivation killer.First, thank you for doing this.
Second, if you get the itch, I'm curious what results would be if you used the same hatchery each time (my only batch where Hoovers via TSC and I was not impressed).
Hope to see more records like this in the future.
Sorry to hear! That's a lot of dead birds. Yeah, I definitely don't think they have the highest quality birds, nor do they seem to give them the best care. That's what really makes me wonder how much the size difference in my 2 batches of CX was due to the different feed, or due to being from Hoover vs. Meyer. I'm sure it was a little of both.I second the not impressed part so far with Hoovers and tractor supply. Cheaper is not always better I just picked up a 80 bird order and 50 were dead. Yes they said they’ll refund for the 50 but this was my big jump into trying to process to sale. What a motivation killer.
My batch of Cornish from Meyer last fall at 8 weeks on 18% feed all averaged 4 -4.5 lbs out of 25 birds only 3 were 5 lbs none made 6lbs. I’m using a higher protein feed from my co op on these that lived it’s 27% 16.00 a bag verses tractor supply’s purina at 26.00 a bag.Sorry to hear! That's a lot of dead birds. Yeah, I definitely don't think they have the highest quality birds, nor do they seem to give them the best care. That's what really makes me wonder how much the size difference in my 2 batches of CX was due to the different feed, or due to being from Hoover vs. Meyer. I'm sure it was a little of both.
You did 18% all the way from start to finish on that batch of Meyer chicks?My batch of Cornish from Meyer last fall at 8 weeks on 18% feed all averaged 4 -4.5 lbs out of 25 birds only 3 were 5 lbs none made 6lbs. I’m using a higher protein feed from my co op on these that lived it’s 27% 16.00 a bag verses tractor supply’s purina at 26.00 a bag.
Yes it’s 14.00 a bag at my co op.You did 18% all the way from start to finish on that batch of Meyer chicks?